Building a Dynamic Career, The Art of Collaboration, and Paddleboarding with Troy Hartley

Laura and Nic interview Dr. Troy Hartley, executive director of the Renewable Energy Wildlife Institute, to explore how collaboration and science can advance renewable energy while protecting wildlife and ecosystems. From building genuine professional relationships to navigating a dynamic career across sectors, this episode highlights the power of curiosity, connection, and creative problem-solving.

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Troy Hartley at twhartley@rewi.org. 

Guest Bio:
Troy Hartley is the Executive Director of the Renewable Energy Wildlife Institute (REWI), with over 25 years of experience in collaborative research, stakeholder and community engagement, science-to-management processes, and innovation on a wide range of natural resources and environmental issues. Prior to joining REWI in 2025, he was the director of Virginia Sea Grant, a national federal-state, university-based partnership program funding and conducting collaborative research, extension, and workforce development activities. He has a PhD in environmental and natural resource policy from the University of Michigan, a master’s in environmental policy from George Mason University, and a BS in zoology from the University of Vermont.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental enthusiast Nic and Laura.

On today's episode we talk about the state of Maine. We interviewed Troy Hartley about building a dynamic career, the art of collaboration, and paddle boarding.

And finally, here's some random fun facts about Maine. Maine is a major lobster producer that produces about 90% of the country's lobster supply, uh, around 40 million pounds a year. Jeez. Maine is the only US state with a one-syllable name. And it's also the only state that borders just one other state, which is New Hampshire.

Well, I guess Alaska doesn't border a state, so that's why I'm still over here trying to list the other states in my head now.

Yeah, it's the only one with one border.

Oh, you're, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a syllables, not borders, yeah. Utah. See, even the short ones, Ohio, all, all have some.

And, uh, Maine has a museum dedicated to creatures like Bigfoot and Yis. The International Cryptozoology Museum focuses on mysterious animals and legendary creatures, including Bigfoot and Yetis and lake monsters, and it is a delightful place that everyone should visit at least once in their lives, if for no other reason than to see puffins, which we'll talk about in just a second.

So how about that? Get that music.

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Let's get to our segment.

All right, so our guest Troy is from the state of Maine, which is cool, which is cool. And have you ever been to Maine?

Once, one time, OK.

Well, you know, I've been there because I've been to all 50 states.

That's true.

Oh, why do you have to say that? Cause like I'm 49 still. I'm really 49. Percy, Montana.

But Maine's a cool state. Maine, Maine is really fun. I think there's some wild things about Maine, for example, like, I mean, I've been many times. I've got some family folks up there, so I get to go all the time. And do you know puffins are in Maine? Did you know that?

I didn't. I only just learned that because my brother and sister-in-law were just there.

Yeah, no, I've never seen one. That's what I want. I need to go for that.

Um, yeah, I've been planning to go back to Iceland in the summer for that, but I didn't realize I could just go straight to Mania, much cheaper, much cheaper.

So expensive though, it's like $300 just to get on a boat or whatever.

Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not that I've looked into it, because of course I have, but I don't know, like, um, I think it's like there's a few places in the country that have this kind of real natural vibe to them, like just by nature of what they are. Alaska is a great example of that, you know, since we've both been to Alaska, uh, we can talk about that, uh.

But I don't know, like, you see a place like that and you go, have you been to the Acadia? What did you do when you were there? Like, what was the, yeah, it was like go to a park, see some things, and then head back.

It was a day trip, so it's not like I went on a big sightseeing tour. I didn't see any moose or anything.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I had a friend of mine who was there and I went kayaking, and they were like, how was the kayaking experience? I was like, I don't know, 7 out of 10, you know, whatever, and they were like, well, wait, what's a 10 out of 10?

And I was like, well, one time I Had a manatee pop up right next to me. I thought that was the coolest thing in the world.

And, and they were like, well, that's in Florida though.

I'm like, OK, but I thought it was cool.

So, it's like, you know, it's a very, very proud state, you know, it's like, well, it's, you know, Maine's the best state. Why wouldn't it be this, this is the best experience you've ever had? And you're like, oh, well, I don't know, I just wasn't.

Yeah.

So do you eat the Maine lobster when you go?

Um, I mean, people do. It still is pretty expensive and it's still also to me it's, you know, lobster is good, but it's not like $50 good and there's plenty of good food there.

I think that's like, but it's a very charming place. Everybody's very personable. It's all very fun. I don't know what the right word is. There's like every town is like a little pocket and there, it seems like they're far enough away. Or it's like it's the longest you could ride on a horse for a day. That's how far away every town is in Maine.

They're all far away from each other and it's kind of neat. It feels very unique, even in the New England area, it feels like its own thing, so.

Yeah, it seems like a sort of out of the way place that you really only go to if you're going there.

Right, yeah, but when you're there, you're having a good time. So, I don't know, it's a great place, the interview is really great, so I don't know, check it out, go visit me and uh yeah.

We'll see you soon. We'll get to our interview.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say.

Hello and welcome back to EPR. Today we're joined by Doctor Troy Hartley, executive director of Renewable Energy Wildlife Institute. REWI is a science collaboration between industry, conservation, and science NGOs that seeks to accelerate the development of renewable energy, mitigate climate change, and protect wildlife and ecosystems. Welcome, Troy. Thank you for being here.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks so much, Nic.

OK, so you are the executive director of REWI. Can you tell us a little bit more about what REWI does and what your, how your role, I'm, I'm really interested in this renewable energy plus wildlife intersection.

Yes, no, thank you for that question. Rewai. I think the origin story is a good way of understanding where Rewai came from and what our strengths are in that coupling of science and collaboration and how doing science collaboratively across these sectors, what that produces.

So about 18 years ago or so as the wind industry in particular was cranking up in the US and appreciating. That it was having some unintended interactions with eagles in particular. Killer and the large conservation and science NGO community got together with a large number of the wind industry individuals and through some negotiations and collaborative processes explored strategies for how we could Avoid this problem, how we could fix this problem, because these are, you know, we want renewable energy and we want eagles too, and we can have them both.

And what do we need to do to do that? And those conversations ultimately led to the eagle rule that the fish and wildlife. Introduced, which is a permitting process for the taking of eagles, but also really a commitment to science, a commitment to finding new technologies to help solve these problems and help renewable energy and wildlife and ecosystems coexist and thrive together.

And it was with those the, the kind of vision of those original folks in industry and the NGO community that said let's launch a science institute. Started out in the wind area and then about 6 years ago or so, 4 years ago, um, expanded into solar and renamed ourselves the Renewable Energy Wildlife Institute. We were AWWI before the American Wind Wildlife Institute and now we're REWI.

That's very cool. And so it, it's interesting cause I remember, I guess for those not familiar, right, the eagle rule is, you know, basically related to wind energy, right, and the, the incidental take from there. How do you manage those kinds of things? Do you help develop the rule itself or, um, help groups follow the rules? And so how do you manage those two things?

Yeah, no, good question. So, And there's kind of a yes and in there, right? Yes, we were involved in the early process of helping negotiate what that rule would look like, but we are, we are a sciences too. We think more about the solutions than a policy institute, so we are a neutral on policy. We want science to inform policy. We want the best science and technologies to inform those policies.

So Rewise's role was To both be investing in research, identifying new technologies that could help us identify eagles on site and then curtail operations of a wind farm to reduce any potential for for take, so set risk minimization strategies.

So REWI both conducts research and funds research into technologies and the underlying science to understand. Why are these interactions happening and, and how can we think about wind and solar energy and design in a way that minimizes those risks?

Yeah, and it's a great segue to my next question, which is, you know, talking about one of the Rewise upcoming events is hosting the 16th biannual Wind Wildlife Research Meeting. Speaking of, like, you know, talking about exactly what you're saying, can you give examples of some of the research that will be presented at the conference?

At the meeting, I think there's probably two things I want to highlight about this meeting. This is not your typical kind of research conference. This is a meeting where you will have industry, NGOs, government officials, university researchers, nonprofit researchers like us in the room talking about and framing up what are the problems we're trying to solve and what do we know, what's the state of the science.

And also what are some of the more leading edge cutting edge research that's out there. So we will get presentations on cutting edge research, everything from probably I haven't seen the actual agenda yet, but it's there's you know making those decisions, but um.

It can be everything from painting a blade of a turbine to try and help alter the visual landscape for a bird or an eagle or to potentially avoid a turbine.

It can be thinking about the FAA lights that might be on top of a turbine and what happens if you add a radar system that's looking to detect when an airplane is in the space and keep the lights off otherwise so that you're not drawing in. Insects and potentially drawing in food for bats, for example, and so there can be even strategies for thinking about the most optimal efficient way to curtail operations so you are simultaneously optimizing energy production while at the same time reducing risk of take what that optimal levels would be.

So a whole series of research topics like that. But having those sectors, having industry, NGOs, government in the room at the same time talking about the science and about what we know and what we don't know, those things build relationships and that's a very powerful outcome from Rewise Model. It's probably the most powerful outcome from Rewise Model.

Yeah, we talk on the show a lot about networking and so much of it is, you know, there's a daunting aspect of it. The word itself has a triggering aspect to it, but truthfully, 9 times out of 10 it's just like, you know, find friends, continue to talk to your friends, you know.

So I love to hear that and I, I, I love that you're doing those kinds of things. We also have a lot of like student listeners on the show. We have a lot of. Early professionals, emerging professionals listening and Rewise launched a collegiate research showcase to help graduate and PhD students learn about their career paths.

So we're talking about, you know, networking, but what advice do you have for people who are starting out in the industry or who are interested in coming to this research meeting that maybe haven't before? What would you tell them?

That's a great question too, and I think attending these sorts of meetings that are focused on that relationship building components have aspects of their agenda that are dedicated for that are really, really important, and we are excited about our collegiate showcase project to be both introducing REWI to Emerging scientists and researchers who are working in this field, get them introduced to the idea of how can we think about renewable energy and wildlife conservation and ecosystem health all at the same time and solve those problems and do research on that.

It's really important work. It's going to only become more important work, so I think having students get exposure to this field early is a really good thing.

I will also note, and I think we make a distinction in REWI between networking and Professional relationship building. Sometimes we, they sound the same, but I've been in situations where people start to think about networking and, and all they think about is how many connections do I have on my LinkedIn. It's a quantity thing versus a quality thing.

I think that the quality of the professional relationships, the genuineness that comes from. Engaging with folks with some curiosity to understand why do they care about what they care about and what do they do in their role, which is the kinds of things that you get to do when you are talking about science and research and data, which is the world of Rewire.

So when you build those sorts of connections, those are the folks that start to help you solve problems in your job, a problem that you may face that will take a year to solve normally. Without a network of professionals that you know, but if you know folks, you can make some calls, you can get them returned, you can understand where they're coming from from the get-go, you don't have to figure that all out and you solve problems much faster.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great answer. Yeah, and I think it also, you know, a lot of people think about networking when they're looking for a job. Building the relationships is what you do when you're thinking about how you're gonna advance your career further and get the work done.

So that's a great example of just like, It's not just about someone who can review your resume or put in a good word for you. Also, when you're ready to do some actual work later, you're like, oh, I know a guy who knows a guy or a gal who can do this, and so let's just reach out instead of having to put out cold outreach looking for someone to fill a spot or something.

Right. There's a great example of that that we just saw recently. I was attending a workshop that some of our partner organizations at the University of Virginia and the a DOE national lab put on related to interactions between fire and wildfire and energy systems.

And when they were talking to the folks who were on the ground doing the work on this stuff, literally putting out fires, they said if it's at that point in time, you have to go get the business card for a local fire department, it's too late because there's literally a fire going on and you're trying to solve that problem.

And I think that's true in this situation too, right? If you, if you're in the middle of the problem and then you're trying to find the people that are gonna need to be at the table, it's too late.

So having those relationships. Relationships early building those professional connections and early are really important and science is the perfect place to be doing that because it's, it's in the scope of scoping out the problem, what's the problem we're trying to solve, and you're framing up the solutions.

What are the options that we have to solve this problem? And if you're in those conversations, then you're going to be in the later, the later ones that are solving a policy decision.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a great example.

And all right, so we've got our network, we've got problems to solve. What are the biggest challenges that you face doing this type of work?

It's particularly challenging right now in the current context, I guess I would say that one of the biggest challenges that the renewable energy and conservation and wildlife community is facing right now working together is the unpredictability in everything from kind of policy environment to what that's meaning for the for the market.

And the adjustments and changes that everybody's living through right now. Um, industry is definitely being challenged by and reacting accordingly. There's bankruptcies, there's consolidation in the industry. There's new leadership happening.

The NGO community is reacting to changing environmental policies and thus. Their attention to where does renewable energies fit in the portfolio when critical minerals and oil and gas and other topics become really important too.

And so finding and prioritizing research and solving problems collaboratively and sharing data in an environment where there is vulnerability and unpredictability. It's harder.

The current environment is a little more difficult to be doing collaboration than it used to, while at the same time being so critical to lean into it. To be innovative and creative and find these new solutions to get through the situation successfully.

So that's an unorganized way unfortunately of probably saying that um there's stress on the network and at the same time you need to lean into that collaborative network now more than ever because of the amount of unpredictability that's in the in the system. So trying to find the bandwidth to do that has been challenging right now.

Yeah, I think unpredictability is and uncertainty are some keywords I've heard over and over this year.

Yeah.

And obviously you've got a lot of skills and experience that has Enabled you to do this type of work. So let's take a step back and talk about your early career. So you studied zoology in college and later got a master's and PhD. So, what led you to your path in environment?

Oh, that's a great question and one that, you know, it's, you sit back and can talk about for a long, long time. We mentioned earlier that I grew up in, in the northern woods of Maine and so the importance of nature and the environment and people that live there was baked into me from the start.

And so going to a place like Vermont and studying zoology and wildlife and ecosystems made a lot of sense. It was just a passion. It was fun to do, but I also had an appreciation for the way decisions were made were not always aligned with what my discipline was telling me was so important, and I was really curious as to why.

And So I went to Washington DC and started working in the environmental policy space. A lot of folks do that. They go, they're gonna go to DC and change the world, um, and considered law school and considered various ways to think about how we make these decisions.

My own natural curiosity led me to pick up a master's degree while I was in DC and then moved on to my PhD at the University of Michigan. And in both of those policy spaces I did a lot of research and focused on collaboration. When do we find new ways to solve problems and solve problems together when people don't necessarily agree when they first come to the table?

So throughout my career that element of collaboration has been a very, very common theme, and In the latter few positions leading to this one at REWI, collaboration in the context of science and the context of research has been a central theme, and I have really gravitated towards it because it's focusing on a topic that leads towards discovery, innovation, creativity.

To find sometimes new ways to solve problems and it's been an amazing place for building those kinds of relationships we were talking about earlier that I both gained from personally and appreciate in my life, but love that we are solving problems and driving towards greater sustainability and resilience in the world, so.

Yeah, I'm gonna throw a question at you that I get through my career coaching a lot, and when people first go, OK, I'm gonna network, then their question is, How do I do it?

Not the emotional like how do I ask the question, but they're like, how do I, I've met someone, I met Troy at the meeting, how do I stay in touch with him? I haven't, they feel like they don't have anything to offer, right? And then how do you build a relationship with someone you might never even see actually in person ever again.

So they're they're thinking. You know, I met this person, I followed up on LinkedIn, now what do I do? How do you see after a career long of focusing on collaboration, like, how do you maintain those types of long distance relationships with total strangers?

Since I have worked in multiple different sectors in this sort of environmental space, everything from water resource management to commercial fisheries to urban redevelopment and and now renewable energy and a lot of climate adaptation work in Virginia before this, each of those are different. Professional networks.

So in the end it has created a very diverse, large network of professionals that I maintain communications with and connections with. Absolutely LinkedIn is an amazing new tool that I think is in the toolbox for folks to be keeping track of where people go.

And can be overwhelming at times, you know, periodically giving a thumbs up to seeing someone made a job change or just, you know, making those little connections.

But I do find it, I think it's the simple things. It's when you are in somebody's town that you know are there, hey, are you, are you available for coffee?

It's Remembering something small that is more personal, that it's sort of an uncanny skill. I don't know where this came from that I have, where I will remember something goofy about somebody usually, right? It's like I have a three-legged dog and they love to skateboard or just something, anything goofy that that that's, but somehow it sticks in my head and it keeps the connection when you reconnect.

In the personable space, the human space, the human space first, and then the professional space second, I attended a conference once and I've seen this message multiple times where the keynote speaker was a Native American and talking about how folks might collaborate with tribes or reservations out west on, but it was it was around renewable energy issues and some conservation issues.

And a very common theme you'll hear from a Native American community is that relationship first, partnership second, meaning that if you walk in the door and you're talking about what you want to do together. Then that's the wrong place to start.

You start with the perspective of where, where's your connection? Where's the human connection? And so if you maintain that, that I think helps those long term connections.

And, and when you do that, then sometimes a long time can pass before you reconnect, but it's very powerful. It's like that, that friend you have from college where you don't see them for years, but then you, you reconnect and you pick up right where you left off.

Yeah, no, I love that. I think Matt Sale, he's was sustainability manager for Microsoft, and I saw that he's big into Legos, and he had, I saw recently that Legos was hiring for sustainability manager.

So I knew he wouldn't apply for the position, but I forwarded it to him anyway, just to be like, hey, like, you know, this made me think of you.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. That's perfect.

That's right, and I think what you said too, just like. Liking or commenting on somebody's post, you know, that's another way to just keep your name there and just say like I'm interested in what you're doing.

You don't necessarily have to go completely out of your way and spending half an hour trying to craft a message that says, hi, I remember me.

Yeah, that's right, for the challenging brilliance of LinkedIn.

Um, I think there's something that's important in that too about the difference between a transactional relationship and a genuine connection and professional relationship.

If the professional relationship is focused almost entirely on the transaction, what am I getting from you, you and you're getting from me, then it's very short-lived and it won't survive and it won't be there longer term if you need it later.

And when things are really uncertain in our work environment, that's when you need the diversity and breadth of that network to be able to be responsive and adapt quickly and come up with innovative solutions to problems.

And so that's where maintaining those and creating those connections genuinely can be important. So sometimes that means, and I think that can be hard for For scientists and engineers, because we are trained to be so objective and separate ourselves from the work we are doing, but the genuineness comes from the human connection and allowing that human connection to happen.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then you also mentioned briefly that you did some work in Virginia, but you were the director for Virginia Sea Grants for 16 years, and that is the uh Not a tiny organization and and very full of collaboration. So, what type of work did you do there and then how have you brought your management skills and stuff like that forward with you now?

Yeah, Virginia Sea Grant and actually all the Sea Grant programs, I'm a big fan of those programs. They are federal-state partnership programs funding research and students and extension capacity at universities.

And focus on applied research and solving problems and ensuring that that science is in the hands of decision makers, but being neutral at the same time. We don't take policy positions.

So all of those that kind of work is really consistent with what we are doing at REY. So it was a very natural progression for me to go from Sea Grant to REY at Virginia Sea Grant.

We were doing a lot of work in funding students and fellowships and professional development in that context, so a lot of these questions and discussions around professional relationship building has been really consistent with what I was doing there and what we are bringing to REWI and as we think about the community of practice that is essentially engaged in this field of In the intersection of renewable energy and wildlife and ecosystems.

I think that some of the work we were doing in Virginia that really drew me to the REWI position when it was announced was some of the offshore wind development work that Dominion Energy has, has been such a leader in and At the same time seeing the scope of sea level rise impacts in Virginia and in the southeastern portion of Virginia where tidal marshes can be struggling and storms come through and a nor'easter will have the kinds of impacts that a major hurricane may have had and the flooding and the fact That our communities really are not prepared.

We're trying, but we are, but this is coming so fast and so much. It's just more powerful than a lot of the science is even predicting in some ways.

So I wanted to get ahead of that. I wanted to move to an organization like REWI where we're um interested in the energy transition and doing that in an environmentally sound and responsible way.

Yeah and it's a great I guess avenue to see like how a career develops and evolves right? and how industry changes and you kind of navigate that whole space but you know I think the theme we have today, you know, reaching out and connecting with people, one of the reasons we love doing this show is giving people. Reasons and ways to connect with you and our favorite way to do that is a segment we like to call Field Notes where we talk about our guests' memorable moments in the field doing their jobs and we have asked our community to send us your funny, scary, and awkward field stories so we can read them on future episodes and you can send those to info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com.

And Troy, you mentioned a memorable moment presenting at the Solar Wildlife and Ecological Research meeting. What's that story?

Yeah, well, they're not sure how scary it was necessarily or embarrassing, although maybe I can find something embarrassing in there.

Um, this was my, you know, first, I had just been hired as the executive director of REWI. This was one of our first major events. Every year we do our research meeting. It alternates between solar and wind. You noted the wind meeting coming up this year and in October. It was solar last year.

So I was welcoming and launching this meeting and getting to Frame the themes of the discussions and the collaboration and partnerships we were really trying to drive and I saw that 60% or so of the attendees had never been to one of these meetings before so it it was perfect to see this, this sort of you're coming to this this location you're engaging with the REWI for the first time.

Um, we wanna keep you. We wanna excite you. We wanna get you to meet somebody else in the room.

I think I even said, you know, find something unique about somebody, you know, I, uh, uh, in my introduction, I noted that, yeah, I aspire to be a Zamboni driver. If I, you know, when I, in the end of the day, when I, what do I wanna be when I grow up question, it's always I wanna be a Zamboni driver.

It's gotta be the most job in the world, you know, just like absolutely peaceful, yeah, that's right, little zen, but drop something like that so you can find and let somebody come up to me during the meeting and say. What's a Zamboni or you know just just uh the meeting was down in Arizona and but um that's funny yeah it was to leverage and use that as an example of, you know, if you wanna walk away from a connection you may make with some unique curious human piece of somebody because that's what can help you stay connected later and, and I got to drop that.

At the same time, and this is classic, right, it was, it was a venue that we had selected. It was going under renovations. They guaranteed the renovations would be done, but by the time we got there, uh, they, I think they were probably squeezing it in and duct taping things at the last minute, and we did have a light. Fall fixture fall out of this, out of the the ceiling.

It didn't, didn't come all the way down, you know, the electric cord caught it, but it was the scary part, I guess. Our keynote had everybody move away from the center, you know, the desk, the chair in the middle of it, or round table in the middle, but I guess that would be the scary part if I had to come up with the scary part.

Yeah, that, no, yeah, that's pretty intense.

And I don't know why it made me think of this, but I remember being at a conference and I was moderating a session and the conference we were in. Had the loudest doors every time they closed it was like a boom so we've been hearing this like all day and you know I'm it's the next day and I'm like the first one I'm like hey so if you do leave super great love that but if you could just make sure the door closes right as I finish a point, you know, to really sell it, that's what I want, you know, and everybody laughs and it's a good way to kind of wake people up in the morning but that.

That's yeah, that's exactly it. It's like it just makes you think of something else and now we're talking about a new thing.

But uh to that end, I mean, oh my gosh, Rick, we're already rolling through time, but we also love asking people what they do for fun. It's another one of our favorite things. So how do you spend your free time when you're not saving the world? Presuming you have some.

Yeah. No, um, but we were, we were mentioning or talking earlier, right, that I'm from, I live in Williamsburg, Virginia. REWI is a completely remote organization, so I have staff all over the country, but this is where I'm, I'm headquartered and pretty much 10 minutes from my house in multiple directions.

There's 5456 different places to Tidal Creeks to paddleboard on. I love to paddleboard.

Um, my Australian Shepherd actually enjoys being on the paddle board too. Um, probably likes to swim more than on the paddle board, but, and I, I really enjoy that.

It's a, it's a walk on water. It's really a quiet and, and peaceful and meditative way to engage with nature here. It's probably like a hot, humid summer Zamboni drive, I guess.

What's his name, Boonie?

Joking.

I was like, well, Laura.

I did grow up in Florida, but we had an ice skating rink inside of our mall.

So, oh, perfect.

That's funny, yeah, that sounds probably had a little, but I don't know where they kept the Zamboni inside the mall though.

But anyhow, uh, we are running out of time. Is there anything else that you would like to talk? Talk about before we let you go?

Well, I think just the the appreciation for the power and this could, this can be a career thing as people are thinking about what career options. I've had the benefit of working in multiple different kinds of sectors in universities and nonprofits and in the private sector, and I really enjoy this bridging organization, uh, neutral third party nonprofit that that RY is.

We didn't talk a lot about some of the things we do both in terms of our regular webinar series, our research meetings, the data management, we are a trusted third party and so industry voluntarily shares data with us about their environmental monitoring on wind and solar farms so that we can all be improving and getting better and better at the design of renewable energy systems so that they are helping wildlife and ecosystems at the same time.

And I think this particular niche it takes special kinds of people to work in these collaborative places and with a collaborative mindset in a neutral third. Party way, but these bridging organizations like REWI are critical for success in collaboration and in science and some of the environmental challenges we face.

So I think that would probably be a point I'd love to drive home.

Yeah, no, that's great. It did make me think one more thing, I think it would be a great question for you.

Again, as a career coach, I get a lot of questions from people who have spent some time in academia, who worry that they can't switch to consulting, or someone who's worked in consulting can't switch to government. But you've crossed those bridges. Any advice for people looking to do that?

I think I've been able to cross those sector bridges professionally, probably because I've focused a lot more of my attention and around what are those skills and strengths that I have and that that are really things I very much enjoy doing that I get joy and happiness. This out of and it is then those things around collaboration and nature and curiosity and when I focus on those things, then the doors that open are not defined by the sector they're defined by the job and the activity that's that they're trying to and the problem that they're trying to solve and some might say meandering career I've had in different places and sector.

I think what that's done for me is given me tremendous strength in being creative and seeing solutions that people didn't see before and seeing how dots are connected in ways that others that others haven't because I've seen it happen in different places and can bring the lessons learned from those into new places.

So I think that's That's what's opened those doors. I haven't been that kind of person who says, Here's the ladder to success, and I have to go from point A to point B to point C to point D and somehow get this magic job.

No, I've, I've let the world come to me a little bit more in that way and found opportunities that are aligning with those, that passion, and then it's always happy. So it's all good.

No, I love that. I love that. The latter's only there if you see it there.

All right, so finally, where can people get in touch with you?

Yeah, the best way probably is through email at the REWI location. So that's TW Hartley H A R T L E Y at rewi.org.

Sounds great. This has been amazing. Thank you for joining us today and we look forward to chatting with you in the future.

Oh, it was my pleasure, Laura and Nic. Thank you so much for having me.

That's our show. Thank you, Troy, for joining us today. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. See you everybody. Bye.