Grasslands, Indigenous History, and Finding Your Passion with Dr. Gabrielle Patterson

Laura and Nic interview Dr. Gabrielle Patterson, historian at the Southeastern Grasslands Institute, to explore the forgotten history of America’s grasslands, the role of Indigenous fire stewardship, and how historical research can support modern conservation efforts. From uncovering centuries-old journals and maps to finding a career fueled by passion, this episode reveals how the landscapes of the past continue to shape the future of restoration and environmental stewardship.

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Connect with Gabrielle Patterson at gabrielle.patterson@segrasslands.org

Guest Bio:
Dr. Gabrielle Patterson serves as SGI’s Historian, specializing in environmental, natural, and Indigenous history. Her research focuses on the historical distribution of grasslands across the Southeastern United States and how landscapes have shaped human activities over time. She conducts historical and archival research, compiles historical maps, and develops GIS-based analyses to support SGI’s mission of saving the forgotten grasslands of the Southeast. Gabrielle holds an M.A. in History with a concentration in Native American History, an M.Ed. in Community College Leadership, and an Ed.D. in Adult and Lifelong Learning from the University of Arkansas. She enjoys golfing, hiking, hunting, traveling, and spending time with her two dogs.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR your favorite environmental enthusiasts, Nic and Laura. On today's episode, we talk about whitewater rafting. We interview Gabrielle Patterson about grasslands, indigenous history, and finding your passion. And finally, here are some fun facts about grasslands.

Grasses cover about 40% of Earth's land mass and are found on every continent, dominating habitats from Arctic tundra to. Tropical savannahs with the grass family including over 11,500 accepted species and possibly as many as 13,000.

More than 30 million bison once roamed North America, but by the late 1800s, fewer than 1000 individuals remained. Today, thanks partly to Smithsonian efforts with native nations, roughly 400,000 bison live in the Great Plains and. Helps restore prairie ecosystems.

A Smithsonian Environmental Research Center meta-analysis found that grasslands generally resist the effects of global change like rising CO2 or heat for about the first decades of exposure, after which their plant species composition begins to shift. That's kind of wild.

How about that? I would love to see a grassland area. Or this country with 30 million bison. That would be so wild. Can you imagine? That's so many. Amazing. Get that music.

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Let's get to our segment. So, Laura, we are talking about grasslands later today. And I don't know how or why, but we also started talking separately about whitewater rafting. And there's so much whitewater rafting in in grasslands.

I know exactly, yes, but this is where we are. And it made me think, do you like whitewater rafting?

Nope.

And I love it, so I guess that's Look at us, a couple of environmental professionals cutting it up. What, what about it? Is it, is it like a fear thing? Is it, what don't know, it's a comfortability thing. It's wet. It's stressful. It's cold most times, and, and you could die. I mean, there's that part, but I'm not really afraid of that. I just don't want to put myself in that position. I went whitewater rafting as a teenager with fam, as one does in Naahalla or whatever. And it was just unpleasant all around. I don't know. I don't get, I don't get it if that's, you know, the thing. So everyone else is different. I'm the only person in the world who hates white water.

No, I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. There's some people who wouldn't even consider it a thing, right? So let's be, let's be clear, I tried it at least, yeah, you did try it.

I've actually only done it twice if I'm honest, but I've had a, I've had a blast, and it's both on the new river and like because there's like an upper and a lower part, and I've done both of those, and I think, I can't remember which one it is that I didn't think anything about the danger because I was like 20 something, you know, both times, and I'm just like.

Oh, you haven't done it since your twenties.

Yeah, it's been a long time.

You need to do it again and tell me if you still like it.

Oh, you know what, maybe that's fair. Maybe that is fair. It seemed I had a great time doing it though. It was, it was fabulous, and there's like, there's somewhere in the ether there are pictures of me in the front of those things like, you know, cutting through the water like, yeah, you know, and then like everybody else in the family behind, like, you know, part of the family was like. Uh, terrified, you know, like, but like me and my friend David were right in the front just cutting through those rapids, so fun, and you're right, maybe it, maybe it's because it's in my twenties, but like, no, there's like another infamous like moment in that trip. Like I busted my knee on a rock because you get out and you swim a little bit too on the regular rapids, and I immediately smashed my knee into a rock, so that wasn't fun. But again, I didn't care that much because I was young and dumb and uh.

Yeah, now you'd be like, I need surgery.

I probably would have, honestly, um, it was really gnarly, but that was a really fun experience and it was really, really hilarious in lots of ways. We made it through without spilling anyone, and then they get to the point at the end where they make you crash basically you surf the little waterfall, and we were the first boat to do, do it without tipping over and so the guide was like, hey, we're doing this again, and we do it again. He immediately turns us over, so we have to tip over. I'm there. It's like my best friend's family, so like his brother-in-law starts to fall out of the boat and I like grab him and we do like this like Star Trek like lock arm thing and I pull him all the way in, but as I'm pulling him in, his wife and mother-in-law are leaning back and they just catapult him to the other side. So it was like it was like perfect like we did a physics experiment and he launched out and they both dodged to avoid. They didn't try to catch him at all. They're like, oh, that's, that's a problem. And I don't know, that was really fun, and it was like 4th of July weekend. I also locked my keys in my car. 4 hours later they finally broke into my car and they weren't in my car, they were in my bag the whole time.

Oh my gosh.

So it was like, well, there's your snapshot of 20 year old Nic.

Yes, exactly.

But I was not the only person that checked my bag. I was not. It was like somehow the key had gotten like underneath the bag.

What do you mean they're not in the car?

Yeah. Oh, that, that guy's wife was furious because it's, it's like July 4th weekend and it was hot, hotter than hell, and they were going to a party and she was all dressed up and it, it, it literally took him like 4 hours to break into my car. It was unbelievable, um was crazy.

Yeah, no, my experience was the family on the trip, my mom did not fall out, she popped out. I've never seen anybody look so terrified in my life. And that isn't what made me want to do it. I just, I just, the same as snowboarding and stuff. I've tried it. I don't like my body doesn't like being cold and uncomfortable and in a precarious situation where, you know, you could slam into a tree or a rock or whatever. Um, I'm very aware, very aware of the Darwin Awards, and I don't want to win one. So I try to stay out of those situations.

Oh man. So, but you did do it. You did and, and you survived.

Yep, I do now tubing in springs where you're just lazy river it.

Oh yeah, I'm in, I'm in.

We did go tubing too, like we tried tubing also as well. We used to camp in the Carolinas a lot, yeah, and I think a rock like hit my tailbone. It was horrible, and I was like, why do people do this? I'm going back to Florida where I don't have to worry about these things.

Yeah, every time you go tubing, when you go down a little, even a little thing, a little dip, you lift your butt up because otherwise, yeah, you're hitting the bottom and that, that hurts so much.

Oh.

Yeah, I mean, I've been there too, so that's too funny. So I don't know. All right, we're gonna plan a whitewater rafting trip together and then we'll, I'll, I'll watch from the shore.

Well, yeah, you'll watch from the shore. I'll decide whether I still like it or not, and uh that'll be that.

Sounds good.

Let's get to our interview. Hello and welcome back to EPR. Today we are joined by Doctor Gabrielle Patterson, historian at Southeastern Grasslands Institute. Gabrielle, it's great to have you on the show.

Yeah, thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

So you're a historian specializing in environmental, natural, and indigenous history.

That is correct.

What made you want to do that?

So my master's is in history with a focus in Native American history, and then I briefly taught history at a community college and. I went back to school for a master's in community college leadership and while I was in the community college, decided to go back and get my doctorate and You know, kind of ending up in SGI was just not in my plan at all, but everything seemed to work out. It's been a really good 2.5 years. I love what I do. I really support the mission of SGI, so I'm very excited to be a part of the organization.

Yeah, so it worked out how?

Um, just fate, I guess. You know, I was in an administrative position briefly and. You know, it just wasn't really a good fit. I kind of missed, didn't really like everything that came along with administration, and I came across this job, and initially I started as a tribal liaison SI, and then I moved into the historian position because we kind of realized we needed more of that research component, and then I've been a historian now for a little year.

Wow, very cool. So yeah, let's talk about Southeastern Grasslands Institute. It's a nonprofit focused on protecting grasslands in the southeastern US.

It's not a nonprofit. It's really just this conservation organization that has a restoration component and a research component that's through the STEM department of Austin Peay State University in Clarksville, Tennessee.

Oh, very cool. So, I mean, what are the things that you work on? Why are grasslands important and what are the challenges you're facing?

Yeah, so I would say 90% of my job is just solely research. So, I go through 16 through 20th century documents trying to figure out how these travelers and explorers and just diaries would document the landscape and try to really pinpoint all this data into where these locations of these grasslands are located. And then we try to look at, you know, when do these grasslands start to be lost from agriculture and how do they pave American settlement patterns. And we're really trying to write the story of the Southeastern grasslands to kind of inform everybody as to why they were important and where they were located. And then we have a restoration team who also does restoration of grassland sites.

So why is it important?

Well, I think it's important because when you look at American history, um, the environment played such an important role in the story of our past and our future. So trying to figure out, you know, looking at all these grasslands, where were they located, and it really begins to show this pattern as to how these grasslands did pave the way for American settlement patterns, also paving the way for people to settle and then giving. The place for to produce agriculture and then really having the basis for cities to begin to spring up.

That sounds amazing. I have such a love for that type of history and the stories, early settlers and stuff like that, and uh to get to read the diaries and things. This is totally side personal question, but are there some like really cool stories or hidden gems you found like, No, they have to be personally wise, like, you know, going through those.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I am a big historian. I love history. I think it's extremely underrated. And we are actually currently working on Grasslandia, and that will go live at the end of the month, beginning of early next year, and what Grasslandia is. I've been using GIS to pinpoint all of these quotes. So right now we're roughly at about 760 quotes that have been compiled over the past year and a half, and users will actually be able to go into this web page and if they're interested in. a specific state, they can go to that state, whatever century they're interested in. If they're interested in prairies, bisons, meadows, they can then kind of go through all of this and then every quote associated with that will pop up for these users.

That's so cool. Anyone who's a longtime listener knows what a huge fan I am of Little House on the Prairie and The entire uh story of crossing, you know, the US and, and expanding, and there was a lot of times they're riding the wagon through the grasslands. And I think I love history. I never really, and of course, Native American history is equally and as fascinating, but I just don't have the memory for the dates and things, but I've been told that that doesn't matter. Do you think?

I do think it matters because I think history should be studied in chronological order because the cause and effect of everything, um, but no, it's great. I mean, I do have to read a pretty good bit over, you know, weeks and months, but It's really just compiling everything. One of the main issues I run into when I'm reading some of these journals and diaries is trying to figure out exactly where they are. And that's one of the things that I've run into with doing this data. So we've kind of narrowed it down to precision. So we'll have a local, a vicinity, a county, a state, and a region. And then users will be able to go in and say, OK, this quote is here, what is the precision of this quote, and then they'll kind of have an idea of this terrain that they're describing.

Yeah, that's awesome. So when I picture grasslands, you know, obviously I picture buffalo, bison, and what other species, what other, you know, historical use. Should come to mind.

Well, so when I started at Southeastern Grasslands Institute, you know, I do not have a background in botany. I'm not an ecologist, but I didn't grow up in the outdoors. So it has been such a learning curve for me to work with these amazing botanists and ecologists who can name thousands of plant species, and I think I could probably name 3, you know, if you were to give me um an entire list, but You know, there's all these different types of grasslands, which I, which I didn't even know when I started at SGI. I was just thinking simply a prairie and even in two years, I'm still having to learn, you know, what kind of signifies the difference between all of these. But really when I'm looking in these documents, one of the main things is understanding indigenous fire usage and the time period as to when they would burn and then trying to compare that to Europeans and then looking at today's fire regimens and when conservations today begin to burn. Also try to document. You know, where were bison located and when did they start to move more west of that Mississippi River and of course, if any of these explorers, especially like Thomas Nuttall, if they mention specific plant species, I will document where these plant species were located.

And do you find like you talk about history, like the, was it the uh Homestead Act like 1862, like when like, hey, please move west, please change the landscape. And you know then that ends up becoming what happens in like the, the 30s with the, the Dust Bowl and the complete transformation of grasslands in a really traumatic way almost. Do you find like those kinds of things start to line up? You're saying, oh, this is where grasslands were. These are the big events that end up changing everything and then there's, I guess after that, like there's no going back. You don't undo some of that, you can't. So then, I guess what's the next phase of what you're doing?

Well, so SGI, we cover 26 states, which some of those states are just partial regions. So we had to, about the southwest of Texas, northeast of Oklahoma, southern portions of Missouri, a little portion of Illinois and Indiana, a little southern portion of Ohio, and then we go all the way up to Long Island. And so all of this research is just specifically for those 26 states and trying to figure out, you know, the location of grasslands. And one thing that I've started working on is building story maps and trying to tell the story to educate the public on all these different topics because I think realistically speaking, the general public's not going to go in and go through 700+ quotes to kind of figure this out. So one thing I'm still trying to figure out is how do we begin to promote this story. Being in Louisiana, I am probably more comfortable with, you know, the Mississippi River Valley history than I am, say, you know, Northeast history, but just going through everything and, you know, trying to figure out whether it's through conferences or writing papers, how do we begin to tell the story of the Southeastern grasslands to the public.

It's really awesome. Sounds like a super fun career. I know. And so, you know, we always want to talk about careers for our. Listeners who are looking for either a new path or to get started in something. So, what would you say looking back, you have an interest in history and kind of sell your way into the environmental crossover. For people who have environmental interests and history, what advice would you give to someone just starting out?

Yeah, I would say to just not give up, you know, this is really my passion, and for a long time people told me. You know, what are you gonna do with history, you know, you need to find, uh, you need to find a career that you're gonna be able to live on and I didn't want to do that. I wanted to wake up every day and do what I love, and I do that. And I have complete autonomy and trust from, you know, leadership at SGI. We trust you to build this story. You know, I've hit some roadblocks. You know, again, I really run into a lot of issues of figuring out where are these people located. You know, it's kind of hard to tell the story if I can't really pinpoint exactly where they're, you know, describing this terrain. But I think, you know, one thing with this grasslandia that we're building with the help of Ezri. is it's going to be able to have users, this website where they can go to, where they can click on it, and if they want to add to it eventually, they're going to have that option to add and then really just trying to figure out, you know, how can we begin to explain the importance of how grasslands were in American history because environmental history and the landscape significantly dictated Europeans whenever they arrived to the New World.

Right. Yeah, going back to that real quick, where do these stories come from? Do you find them in libraries, antique stores, like, you know, journals, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's really a rabbit hole studying Native American history.

I had a pretty good background in terms of, you know, what explorers or where to start looking. But once you start looking on Internet Archive, you know, or Library of Congress or JSTOR, it's just a rabbit hole, especially when it starts going through all of these references and I probably have dozens of documents in Google Docs that are consisting of, you know, 50 to 100 pages of all of these sources that I have not even touched yet.

Yeah, oh, it sounds so much fun.

It does sound fun. I, I mean, I know we keep saying it, but it does. We're jealous. It's really what's happening, like, what are we doing with our lives? Well, OK, and then, so you decided to pursue higher and higher education, so what was your decision in doing that? So again, for someone listening who's like, I don't know if I should pursue a master's or even a PhD.

Yeah, so initially prior to SGI my goal was to stay, you know, in higher ed, predominantly maybe in an administrative role. And then I just kind of realized I didn't know if that was my passion or really what I wanted to do. And when I got this job at SGI it really just felt like all of the years, you know, it took me almost 15 years to get to this position. And it was worth the hard journey, maybe not at the time, you know. But everything worked out, you know, everybody at SGI is really passionate about what they do, and they're good at what they do. And when you work with people who are passionate, you know, about fulfilling this mission of saving the forgotten grasslands of the Southeast, it really makes, you know, your job more enjoyable.

Yeah, that's really important. Have you worked other places where you've not really felt that?

Well, not necessarily. Most of my professional career has been in education in some form or fashion, whether it was coaching or in the classroom or a brief administration stint. And I've always had good experiences in my professional career. I just kind of felt like something was missing for me, and I really couldn't figure out what that was. And then I came to SGI and, you know, initially I was doing tribal relations, and then I could really see how, you know, we're, we're missing this historical component. We're missing this research to tell the story because if people don't understand the story, how can they get behind this grassland restoration?

Yeah, and, you know, it's. I love the way you said that because you know we talk a lot about like finding things that you're you're passionate about, but you can have good experiences you can have very good experiences with something that's that's fine and not maybe not necessarily bad, but I don't think we've really talked about like, you know, when you're doing something you like and then you find something you love, how different that.

Yeah, yeah, you know, this, this isn't working for me. There's been weeks I've probably put in more hours than I am paid to do, but when you do what you love, you know, it's not working.

Yeah, yeah. No, I think, and we haven't talked about that before, it's usually in in line with the question I asked you, have you worked places you haven't, cause a lot of people have had, I think more people have that experience where they're just like, oh I hate this, I gotta find something else, but there is too, like. This job is OK. And then, you know, do you settle or do you keep looking? Do you have any thoughts on that?

You know, I would just tell people that things are gonna work out the way they're supposed to work out, even if you don't understand that in the time period. And I will say I do miss teaching, mainly in the sense of just seeing students succeed and seeing them and their dreams come true and You know, I have so many former students now who are in med school, who were in law school, and who did exactly what they wanted to do when they were 18 and 19 years old, and it's very rewarding, you know, it's very fulfilling to play a part in those people's role to be successful, but for me. This is my passion because this is an ongoing project that could take decades to complete. You know, there's so many stories that I have not even captured. I have only gone to one archive in 2 years and there's so much content and data that is sitting in archives under dust that have not been, you know, read in decades or centuries. So, I think I just get so passionate about, you know, telling a story that people just don't know.

Yeah, that's so amazing. And when you're talking about coaching people, what type of advice were you giving people that, you know, helped them to, to go into what they wanted and to see it through, cause I, I feel that too when I see someone like here at, at the Ezra User conference this week, someone I coached. Right when I first early started, she's here leading something and I'm like, that's so cool, I love it.

You know, I would tell them that, you know, I have students from all types of backgrounds, first-generation students, and that time is going to pass, whether you're doing something or whether you're not doing something. So, if you can know that if you put in the time and dedication, that in 5 to 10 years you can be who you want to be, why not put in that time because that time is still going to pass, whether you're doing that or not.

Yeah, absolutely. That's great. I don't know, it's just like it's a really fun conversation. I really appreciate it and like one of the ways we like to connect with people is to share stories and that's when, you know, you get to read these stories. I love the idea, even the concept of. You're reading a story that's that hasn't been touched in 100 years, that's, that's pretty wild, but we have a segment on the show we call like hashtag field notes, and it's the part of our show where we talk to our guests about memorable moments doing their work and we love hearing people's funny, scary and awkward field stories. So you can send them to us to be read on a future episode at info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com. But Gabrielle, for you, I know you could say you don't go in the field that often, but when you do, you're covered in chiggers and ticks, and I, yeah, we've all been there, but tell me, what's that like?

Yes, so I actually grew up, you know, in the outdoors. I grew up hunting, grew up in a very rural place where I grew up was a population of maybe 200, and the closest town was about 1500. So my entire maternal side and my father are avid outdoorsmen and. I grew up in the woods, you know, I was very blessed to grow up in the 90s where you had to be home when the street light came on. But what I find so interesting is when I started with SGI, you know, I would start seeing all of these places that had been restored and how beautiful they looked. And we have a deer lease that's been in the family for about 30 years and I have gone to it every year, multiple times a year, but it wasn't until I started with SGI until I realized this deer lease needs some work. So for someone who grew up in the woods for 30 years and would consider myself to be an avid outdoors person, it really took me to see these restored sites to understand how much of the landscape still needs help.

Yeah, and that's a really fair thing because, you know, like what you're used to and what you expect very much is those things change when you see new things, and I think it's one of the best reasons, like excuses for travel, right? You need to go see what a restored grassland looks like cause it will completely blow your mind.

Yeah, I love that. I grew up camping. I was outside all the time, but until I got my biology degree, I didn't know what I was looking at.

Right, right. Yeah, and it's been amazing. Um, I went on a grasslands greatest hits tour, uh, with, um, a member of the restoration team, and basically he showed us all of these different grassland sites and he could just name species after species, which in itself is amazing and impressive. But just going to these sites and then seeing sites that are degraded, I understand now, you know, why we need to start educating the public on the importance of restoring these grasslands and saving what's left.

Yeah, and, you know, uh, I guess I needed to ask two important questions. The first one is two triggers and ticks. Are you basically what I'm hearing is that you're my best friend. To take in the field because they'll go to you instead of me. Is that what happens to you?

They do. I don't know what it is. I go up to Arkansas pretty often to go hiking in the Ozarks, and they love me, and that is my favorite part about being outside. I would rather be surrounded by snakes and spiders than to experience chiggers and ticks.

Yeah, I can completely understand that. But when you're doing this like grassland tour, do you have a favorite, like, is there like a favorite moment from that tour, even like, uh, I don't want to say like a favorite, you know, type of grassland, but like, maybe an experience from that that really stuck with you.

I think just seeing these grasslands after a fire and seeing just how vibrant they become after fire has been on the landscape has been. Really eye-opening for me. You know, a lot of these documents, I'll start, you know, in the 16th century, and then I'll kind of move to present day, and then I'll start specifically looking for years of when indigenous people would burn, and then just seeing the description of this, it's just so fascinating to know that this has been done, you know, for centuries, thousands of years. That's probably been one of the greatest experiences for me at least.

Yeah, and it's such a strange thing, isn't it? It's like fire is an important and necessary part of a grassland that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Right, and it's, it just fascinates me. How did they figure this out, you know, when did they figure this out, you know.

I know it's, yeah, smarter than me is the way I always say it. We also on this show love to talk to our guests about what they do for fun, and again, like the way we connect with people is through our, our hobbies, and sometimes that's work and sometimes it's hobbies outside of work. So you, you know. We're talking about the outdoors. I wanna, I wanna say first, you love spending time with your dogs, uh, Sir Jasper and Lady Jewel. Um, how on earth did you get those names? Where did those come from? Come on.

Well, Jasper is named after Jasper, Arkansas, uh, which is one of my favorite towns in Arkansas, and I just needed another J, you know, um, you know, that's all it really came down to. I needed a J to match Jasper, so I came up with Jewel.

OK, do they have their own Instagram page?

They do, yes, of course they do. Yes, I do.

As a proud parent to, uh, bad Charlie, I get it. I understand. So, you know, that's very fun. Like do you bring your dogs with you when you go, I assume.

I do. They go hiking with me sometimes. Uh, Jasper is approaching 10 and he, he prefers to sleep, but, uh. They do go with me as much as possible.

That's fun, yeah, and it's, it's great. It's one of the joys of, uh, pet ownership that every dog's a little different. I love that. Um, but you also like to golf again. You live in Louisiana and so I'm trying to think, do you golf in the winter? Are you like, you know, I don't care. I'm, I'm golfing a billion degrees outside.

I'm good. I can golf anywhere. I golf pretty often. I actually golf two rounds on July 3rd. It took us 9 hours because it was so busy with it being the holiday weekend.

Oh my gosh.

But I try to golf at least twice a week, and I will go to just various courses to golf. I have a really good friend who recently retired, so he has a little more free time than I do, but he is always open to go golf with me, so.

But like, yeah, I mean, how do you like, not just, I mean, I'm thinking about golfing in the middle of summer and I'm passing out just from the thought. How do you like manage that?

You know, you just kind of forget about it. It's such a, not only is it a difficult game, but it is just so. In a way, meditating as well, you have to concentrate so much and I think with reading so much throughout the day and so much content overload that I experience, I really have noticed that I've needed something to just kind of step away that allows me to clear my mind.

Yeah, and that's actually makes more sense. Yeah, it's a great point because it's almost the opposite of what you do all day, you know, and I mean everybody needs those kind of outlets. So like I mean like, are you good at golf?

You know, I would say it depends on the day and it depends on the course.

Yeah, it depends on who's looking.

Yeah, uh, that's funny.

Yeah, it's a hard game. It's really hard, and it is, uh, it does require intense focus. But you're right, there's a lot of joy there too. It's like always like, I always get like that one good shot. That's what I'm out for after, you know, 11 great shot, I should say. That's what I want. As long as that one time, I'm good.

Well, my, one of my grandfathers was an avid golfer, and he's 94 now, and he actually will still go outside and chip with me in his yard. And I have a little brother that's 10 who just started playing golf and he's pretty good, so I am starting to, uh, have some more people to go play with me.

Oh, that's fun. I used to golf with my grandfather as well, which I really loved, but this has been a super fun conversation, but we're running out of time. So is there anything that you would like to talk about before we let you go?

Yeah, I would just like to um tell the audience if they have any more information that they can go to the Southeastern Grasslands Institute's website. We have volunteer opportunities that are constantly being posted on the website and we also have a youth outreach coordinator. So if there was ever any questions that you could reach out to, just go to the website and click information and if you have any, you know, any questions, just reach out. Everybody's pretty good about, you know, responding.

OK, awesome. If anyone wants to reach out to you directly, where would they go?

Yeah, so they can just email me at Gabrielle.patterson@segrasslands.org, and I am pretty prompt as well since I live at my computer.

golfing.

Well, thank you so much. This has been awesome.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

And that's our show. Thank you, Gabrielle, for joining us today. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. See you, everybody. Bye.