Local Workforce Empowerment, Climate, and Good Trouble with Michael Carter

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we talk with Michael Carter, Climate and Workforce Manager at King County’s Executive Climate Office about Local Workforce Empowerment, Climate, and Good Trouble.   Read his full bio below.

Help us continue to create great content! If you’d like to sponsor a future episode hit the support podcast button or visit www.environmentalprofessionalsradio.com/sponsor-form 

Showtimes: 
1:43 - The Art of Hustling 
8:11 - Interview with Michael Carter Starts
15:30- Challenges talking about Climate
29:14 - Being a good trouble maker
43:24 - On being a poet

Please be sure to ✔️subscribe, ⭐rate and ✍review. 

This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Michael Carter at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelpaucarter/

Guest  Bio:
Michael Carter is a changemaker and good trouble seeker, serving as the Climate and Workforce Manager at King County’s Executive Climate Office (ECO). His work centers on connecting communities affected by climate change with living wage employment opportunities linked to clean energy deployment. He leads initiatives like King County JumpStart, a workforce development program to connect youth to clean energy careers, and local businesses to clean energy contracts at King County. In addition, he serves as the co-chair of the Coalition for Climate Careers, a public-private partnership focused on increasing access to the green economy for underrepresented groups. Michael is committed to bridging the gap between skilled trades and clean energy deployment while ensuring equitable access to living-wage jobs for frontline communities impacted by climate change. He holds a Master’s in Public Administration from the University of Southern California (USC), where his research focused on integrating workforce development into local government climate action plans.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental nerds, Nic and Laura. On today's episode, Nic and I talk about the hustle. We interview Michael Carter about local workforce empowerment, climate, and good trouble. And finally, here are some fun facts about the extremely cute burrowing owl. The burrowing owl is a small, primarily diurnal owl, unlike most owls that are nocturnal. However, they will migrate during the nighttime and hunt throughout the night. Mainly catching mice as opposed to primarily insects during the day. Burrowing owls eat mainly insects that they find on the ground, but will catch lizards, some birds, and other small animals when the opportunity arises. They often plays mammal dung around their burrows that attract dung beetles, which burring owls then feed on. They hunt mostly on foot and are fast runners when chasing prey. I think this bird's got some hustle. Yeah. Yeah, maybe not the smartest bird, but yeah. 

Hit that music!

NAEP is now accepting abstracts to showcase your work to an audience of national and Alaskan environmental professionals at our 2026 annual conference and training symposium, happening May 11th through the 14th, 2026 in Anchorage, Alaska. Abstracts can be submitted for oral presentations, posters, workshops, and special sessions on national and Alaskan issues. Abstracts are due November 1st. Please check out www.NAEP.org for details. 

Let's get to our segment. 

Are you a hustler, Nic? I mean, would you consider yourself someone who hustles? Ah, it just depends on what it is. I wouldn't necessarily say I, there's different kinds of hustling, right? I don't know, I think, like I wanted to start today cause actually one of my old comic friends from Raleigh. is now a writer on SNL just popped up as a writer, and that does not happen without hustle. And I think one of the things I learned from her was, like, I, I got to see her, she was good when, when she was there. Like she was good and now she's great, but there's two sides to the story, right? There's always how funny you are and then it's how well you can get yourself in front of other people. How do you do that? And how do you navigate that? And the hustle is what we all call it because that's what it is. You've got to be like, hey, put me on, I'm funny. They have to back it up, but you don't get on there without having the drive to say this is what I want, please give it to me. Right. You know, you know. So in that case, are you saying that sort of the definition of hustle is putting yourself out there? That's kind of what I mean. It's, it's standing up for yourself, being confident in yourself, being, uh, an advocate for yourself. That's probably the best way I would describe it, you know, when you have an opportunity, like, you know, sometimes you get them, they give them to you, but sometimes you have to make them, and I think that's kind of what we talked about with Michael. 

Sometimes you have to make the opportunity. Like some people aren't just, people aren't just going to give you stuff just because you exist. They have to know that they even could, and sometimes you have to make that happen. So, I mean, And how do you see it? What do you see as hustle? I think I just see it as a general constant motion, you know, so. You know, is it the grind, is it the hustle, is it, but some people will say the hustle is not good or hustle doesn't involve strategy, it just involves going, going, going. So there's, it's also good, it's hustle bad. I still think you're hustling no matter what you call it. Yes, and whether you have a strategy or not, I think you can hustle with strategy or hustle without it. Yeah, and it's like, you know, you're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, that's hustling, but it's annoying. And so like, you know, sometimes that'll work, sometimes it'd be like, fine, go up there if you just stop talking to me, right? Sometimes that'll work. But a lot of times they'll be like, just leave me alone. What are you doing? You're, you're annoying me. 

See, it's much more about the person because that doesn't work for most people. I mean, it doesn't work on me. If someone's like annoying, do something like that. It's like, no. Actually, it's funny that you said that. I've been contacted on LinkedIn by a salesperson, shocking. Which we all are all the time, but occasionally you get one that's just relentless, and they probably think, think they're hustling, but they are annoying. Yeah, that is not hustle. I mean, but that's, that's kind of like the joy of this conversation, right? Because that is the hustle and it'll work. And so maybe it does work with some people. But what a turn off for me. I ended up just removing them as a connection because I was like, I really don't mind you following up with me. I need to be followed up with. If someone looking for career advice, like sends me a message and I don't respond, please follow up. But do not follow up every other day with, you know, just some ingenuine message and trying to sell me something. Like, that will not be appreciated. Yeah, it's there's there has to be a good amount of authenticity to it, right? There's an earnestness that needs to exist, otherwise it's just give me stuff. Why? Because I'm asking for it. Not that, oh no, you are, why would I give it to you? Right? In another case, we had an author that was. is partnering with my publishing company and she is great at having book tours and promoting herself, and she's also a women's emergency prenatal doctor, like she's amazing. Her story is about her coming from Romania to the states in her late teens. Because of of a family issue and just having to hustle and find her way here and to make her life work, and then she became this like amazing doctor. She goes to Kenya every year to do. 

A charity work and she's just amazing and I'm trying to think of the name of her book right now so I can promote it. So edit one of you. I'm gonna have to say it and pop it in here later. And so she's just really great, but like I said in the email, I said I really for lack of better words, enjoy watching your hustle. And she replied, hustle with a question mark. Like, I don't even understand what you're saying, you know. Yeah, yeah, and it's just like a drive sometimes, you know, like motivation, it's like what motivates you? What gets you going, what gets you, we talk about it with like uh networking, right? Where we say like so many times like what the word seems to mean and what it actually means, right? It's the same thing with hustle, right? So we're saying, you know, networking is not just, hey, you know, give me business, it's just finding people you enjoy hanging out with, hanging out with them. And hustle to me is like finding something you're passionate about and letting other people know about it. Like just let them know, like, hey, I'm really good at this. I would love to do it for you. And it doesn't not giving up on it, you know, you're gonna just go and go and go for whatever internal reason motivates you. And it's kind of like you don't have to like have one person, and I mean this is different in like the comedy world, but like in in because there is like one recruiter, one promoter for a club, like you have to become friends with. But there are lots of other clubs. There's lots of places to go. So you have to just find the right one, the one that fits for you. The same with business, you know, like you find the right partnerships, the right places, the right people, and that will kind of help your hustle along. Like that's kind of the joy of it, really. Yeah, so I don't know what the actual definition is. I guess we could look up if there is one, but I think it is like you said, like networking, it's one that people view differently depending on their own experiences with it. Yeah, that's true. I mean, yeah, I've had a recruiter do the same exact thing, called every single one of our like program managers over and over and over again. None of us answered because we didn't know. Did you get this weird message from this person? And they're like, yeah, not talking to them, yeah, me either. Yeah. Yeah, so if you're out there hustling, just make sure that you're not annoying people. Make it a good hustle. Good hustle. 

All right, let's get to our interview.

Hello and welcome back to EPR. 

Today we have Michael Carter with us. Michael is the climate and workforce manager at King County's executive climate office and co-chair of the Coalition for Climate Careers. Welcome, Michael. Thanks for having me. Oh man, so you graduated from Warren Wilson College, where you mentioned is one of the only work colleges left in the country. What is a work college and what made you fall in love with the workforce development there? Oh, great question. What is a work college? So, a small number of colleges in the United States require their students to actually be employees of the college and work in an intentional community during their time as a student. So I was fortunate enough to work. At Warren Wilson as a student, I worked in the residents Life office, the health center, the newspaper, and I had tons of friends who worked on the farm, the garden, the blacksmith shop, the forestry crew, the electrical crew. So I was not really into like the whole physical crew kind of thing, but definitely made my contribution in the community as a worker, and I think the blacksmith crew, we still have blacksmiths these days. 

Yeah, they actually made really cool like coat hangers and artifacts and items out of metal to sell in our shop. Um, the farm also sold meat and dairy products and stuff like that, so a lot of the crews would make things that the college would use themselves on campus or sell for profit. That's cool. Yeah, so how do you go from there, like, and how does that experience shape where you are today? Oh, great question. So I guess I learned a really good work ethic, I think, and I was a social work student and a residents life crew member, so a lot of my work was focused on people and helping and supporting people, helping and supporting students, and my first internship in college for social work was working in a career center. And I thought for a long time I was going to do like straight up social services, child welfare work for years and years I like before my final internship, I thought that was going to be like my field placement working with children protecting children, but I did an interview with the great folks at Good. Will of Northwest North Carolina. So like, do you ever go to a Goodwill store and pick out some items, the funds from that go to fund workforce development initiatives, so that's career centers, job training programs, things like that. So I interviewed with some amazing folks there and they talked about how When you're supporting someone in their career process, you're helping them change their lives, their families' lives, and in turn their trajectory of those communities, and I just fell in love with the possibilities that exist there. When you make an impact in somebody's economic life, there are ripples. That affect so many other things, and that was something that really excited me and still affects me to this day, like how do we work with individuals, work with communities to contribute to a bigger, larger impact. That's great, you know, and where did that sense of like making that impact, where did that come from? 

Why is that important to you? Oh wow, we're, we are getting into the deep question I I know it's reign, where does that come from? I think it comes from, like, wanting and desiring a sense of purpose and a sense of contributing to something bigger and greater than myself, and I think, you know, as my career has advanced, it's moved into the environmental space, into the climate space, and I think that is a natural extension of that work, looking at how I make contributions in the sustainability space from the lens of my own education and special skill set just focused on career and workforce development, job training programs. programs, project management, government partnerships, like, it's all about how I can use my skills, my calling to make an impact on some of the greatest challenges in our lifetimes. Yeah, no kidding, and that's a great segue to your work at King County. So what are you doing? What are the things you're focusing on at the moment? Great question. So, I get to be the climate and workforce manager inside the King County Executive Climate Office. And what that job entails is I help set the strategy for our county and how we engage in workforce development and we workforce development into our climate action projects and then I also get to help shape the implementation of that strategy. So right now our county council is considering a 2025 climate and workforce strategy and that strategy's mission is really centered on How do we connect and finding innovative and new ways to connect frontline communities, those communities that experience the effects of climate change first and worst, to living wage opportunities in the green economy. 

And the thought process there is our young people, our black and brown community. are disabled communities are communities for those who are economically disadvantaged, they're going to hit some of the worst effects of climate change first, so they should also be first in line to take advantage of some of the opportunities that are going to come from a clean energy transition. Which, you know, some folks might be a little bit apprehensive now about that clean energy transition, given what's happening at the federal level, but what I like to say is like it's a long time coming and it's going to continue to keep coming no matter what's happening at the federal level because the technology is getting cheaper day by day and the opportunities are becoming more plentiful and us as an environmental movement, whether that's the county or whether that's other municipalities or That's folks that are involved in the climate and environmental space. We're learning that we need to be shifting the dynamic and how we talk about this work, and what that means is we're having conversations with electricians, HVAC company owners, weatherization firms, and saying, hey, you do so much other pieces of work, but the work that you're doing essentially is climate work. It is clean energy deployment and we're getting those folks involved and engaged and I think like. That's also a big part of the strategy. So that's a long answer, but it's a good one though, yeah. What I might say is like the work that I do is centered on helping shape our county-wide strategy and doing the work along with the wonderful people on my team to implement that strategy through programs, campaigns, initiatives, all highlighting the green economy for the folks that will benefit the most from participating. Right, and it's like.

 So I've explained this a few times to people too in, in my industry. It's like you can, however we talk about it, however we frame what climate is. Climate is dynamic, it does change. It will do things differently every, you know, over time. And you know, North Carolina is a good example. We have a lot of beach community there and that beach community, every year the beach shifts, it changes, it moves. It is not nearly as static as we'd like it to be. And so there's always even opportunity there, keeping beach communities. You know, together, when as water rises, you know, it's going somewhere, and you know, that's where it's gonna be. And so you see that kind of thing happen all the time. So for you, like, you know, you already kind of touched on it a little bit, like having shifting how we talk about it, has that been challenging in this past year? Because we've been talking about that on the show a lot too. It's been tough, but the work still is gonna get done, still needs to get done because the climate's gonna do what it does, regardless of what's done. I was gonna do what it does. I think it has been challenging, but what we've been leading with is adaptation and mitigation starts at the local level. We need to make sure that as local government, we are preparing our communities to be resilient in the face of change, no matter what that change looks like. So, for us, you know, we've really been shifting our language and shifting our overtones window and shifting our partnerships towards local action. I think sometimes, especially at this moment right now in our country, we tend to nationalize everything, like everything is this big national issue. 

It's all about the federal government, but what touches people's lives on a regular daily basis is your local government. It is your local economy, it's the businesses, it's The labor partners, it's the training institutions, it's the people, it's the employees, it's the workers that make up your local neighborhood and your local city, your local community. So I think we are really shifting our energy and our work to make sure that we're supporting our region in a way that works for our region, because, you know, at this moment in time, there are so many different things that we cannot control, but what we can control is how we support our neighbors, how we support our communities. Yeah, which is, that's another great answer. Uh, too many great answers, uh, too soon, so, uh, too many buckle up. We have a whole podcast left. Come on, I know, right? Well, speaking of doubling down, you're also the co-chair for the coalition of Climate Careers. So what's the intent behind that and what's your role there? Oh, it's so hard for me sometimes to like talk about C3, the Coalition for Climate Careers, like in short snippets because like this is a project that has been years in the making and it's a project that's very close to my heart. So I'll figure out a way to succinctly talk about this without making the whole rest of this conversation about that one. The coalition like and how that works. 

So I get to serve as the co-chair for the Coalition for Climate Careers and that was really born out of the desire to cut boundaries and develop more regional collaboration and coordination across municipalities and governmental entities. And what I mean by that is like, let's rewind back, take it back to like 2021, 2022. There was a lot of energy on the federal level, especially with the inflation Reduction Act, the bipartisan infrastructure law, and when we formed that coalition, we wanted to make sure that we weren't repeating the mistakes of the past when it came to federal funding, federal legislation. Like there were a lot of bills that passed a while ago where the positive impacts of that funding didn't really hit communities in a meaningful way. And so we formed the coalition, and when I say we I mean King County, our partners at the city of Seattle, our partners at the port of Seattle to really have a partnership that centered our entities and also communities, whether that's community groups, labor partners, employers, training providers, community colleges, and how do we All sing from the same sheet of music, identify key priorities so that our region, the Puget Sound region, acted with one voice in accessing funding opportunities and then making those funding opportunities actually meaningfully felt on the ground in the communities that we serve. And I think, you know, again, not to nationalize the conversation, but oftentimes I think about we are where we are now because sometimes people don't see the benefit of local government or federal government in their everyday lives. So we came up with this coalition which has a mission that's centered on how do we make sure we bring as many organizations, as many partners to the table as possible, and make sure that we're highlighting the green economy and creating opportunities in the green economy for frontline communities in our region in a meaningful way. 

And what that looks like is organizational programming and events that introduce and expose young people and our county residents to the green economy and create it in different ways, like our Green Jobs Future Summit, which is a one day interactive event. And that focuses on demo stations to highlight green careers. So it's a really popular event for our young people. The coalition also focuses on policy advocacy, promoting policies regionally, promoting uh workforce development paradigms regionally, and then partnerships. So Proud to say that there are some great partnerships that the coalition is exploring right now focused on connecting young people to pay work-based learning opportunities on climate projects, and that's one of the signature initiatives that the coalition is working on right now, so we're super proud of that. So when people think about decarbonization, whether that's installing solar, installing heat pumps, doing weatherization for multi-family buildings or single family homes or daycare centers or adult family homes, like there are going to be young people in this region that work on those projects through collaborations between King County and the Coalition for Climate Careers, and that's money in their pocket, experience on their resume, and stories that they can tell on how climate action actually shows up in their real life. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was gonna ask you how you reach young people and how you bring them in, but I think you've done that, you know, you, you give them opportunity and that's any person. I think sometimes we think, oh, you have to do this special thing in order to engage a young person, and we forget young people or what people. Yeah, for sure. I mean, well, it sounds really cool. It sounds like there's a lot of really good positive momentum there too.

 Like I say, I'm, I'm impressed and I love that that's happening. What's on the horizon? Are there, are there new events coming up? Is it, what's the next thing for C3, as you call it? So we just did an amazing event this past July to introduce the coalition, highlight community members that are contributing to it, talk a little bit about what each of the municipalities is doing to advance our work. We are doing an event, I want to say in November. There are some great folks who are helping to organize that, and it's all about a new way of networking. So it's kind of cool. We're focused on different projects that are happening across municipalities and folks. Come in and talk about those projects and the community members are going to get a chance to like ask questions about those and figure out ways to get involved in those particular projects. So I know one of the things that we're highlighting in the policy advocacy space is feasibility study that the county hopefully will be championing next year on how do we connect skills training and workforce development partnerships to our county capital projects that have an impact on the environment. And you know what that looks like for us is how do we build in more skills training partnerships into solar projects or into HVAC or weatherization projects and like what does that look like to use the billion dollar capital portfolio that King County has to put money in the pocket and opportunity on the resume of people who want to get involved in this field. I think we need to change the perception that, you know, climate work is work that happens in an office behind a keyboard and shift it to, you know, it's things that happen out in your community, utilizing your skills and your training and your resources to get things done. So yeah, we're super excited about that event that's happening in November.

The big thing though that I'm also excited about is we're hoping that our county council will approve our 2025 climate and workforce strategy in October, and that gives us the permission to start acting on that strategy in a really meaningful way. And we're excited about a lot of the initiatives and a lot of the projects that are going to be tied to that. That is a perfect segue. I think that really is. Oh my gosh, it was incredible. But still, I want to say that program, the workforce one is really amazing because I've been career coaching for 8 years and one of the biggest problems that especially recent graduates have is like, how do I get, I can't apply for entry level jobs and I don't have any work experience. And whether it's perceived or real, because, you know, some places you can apply and they understand you don't have experience. They would feel more confident regardless if they did have somewhere that they could get. That's something between an internship, because a lot of them say, I missed the boat. I didn't get to take an internship because I had to work or whatever. And of course, they were working something that might not be climate related. So providing opportunities like that, I think is really important to getting people their first step into. An actual career, so it's really awesome. I love that you mentioned that, Laura. Can I just put a quick plug in? So like earlier you talked about, you know, folks not getting that opportunity because they have to, you know, work, you know, they can't afford an unpaid internship, which I 100% agree with. Like I think we should ban all unpaid internships. Like it's Wild, that's wild. Yeah, so a couple of years ago, we came up with something called NextGen Climate, and that's an internship program that's specifically focused on college students, and what we do is we pair them with county staff that is working on implementing our strategic climate action plan. 

So we've been doing that for the past 4 years, and a lot of the young people that come out of that internship program, which is a year-long program where they're paired with county staff working on a specific project to advance our strategic climate action plan, they come out of it with jobs. We've had people go on to work at the White House. We've had people go on to work in the consulting space. We've had people stay on and continue their careers at King County, and we've really seen it as like a long. Point for folks who want to be environmental professionals, and I've been so excited to see the growth and development of that program 4 years and now, and we will be hiring for a new round of interns if folks are interested in our located in like the Seattle King County area, we'll be starting a new round of applications and interviews for that particular internship in January, so it's coming up like 3 months from now. But I agree with you. We need to create opportunities for our young people to feel like they can contribute. Oftentimes in the environmental space, the sustainability space, we hear a lot of people say, you know, it's really up to the young people. Like they really aren't gonna be the ones that save us, and I'm like, no, uh, first of all, you're here right now. So like what can you do right now? It's not, oh, let's just these young people to eventually save the world. But if you know, we are going with. Thinking, which I don't subscribe to, then we need to create clear opportunities for our young people to enter into these fields so that they can be competitive and they can get the experience and be in the rooms where things happen so they can make that impact. So like that's one of the projects and programs in our portfolio in implementing our climate and workforce strategy that I'm super proud of because we've had a lot of young people really launch amazing careers and go into really great opportunities from that particular program as well. 

Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, as you say that, when we say it's up to our young people. We're really saying, I'll get to it tomorrow. Or I'm never gonna get to this good luck young person, you know, that's yeah, gets here. So y'all are articulating climate policy in our country right now, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, so really our next question was about the green job strategy that you started in 2023. Have you touched on all parts of that or is there more to it? Well, like, I will provide context for that. So like, you know, what I was highlighting earlier is our 2025 climate workforce strategy, but the precursor to that was our 2023 green jobs strategy. So I'm fortunate enough, I was the first person ever in the role that I'm in now, which originally when I first started, we didn't have an executive climate office and I was Based in our wonderful Department of Natural Resources and Parks, and I was our green jobs program manager, and what I worked to do was establish our very first county-wide green jobs strategy, and that was, it took, I want to say, 18 months of talking with community members, doing policy analysis, doing industry. The growth analysis to really figure out where could King County as a county pull levers to create ecosystem where we supported entry level jobs for frontline community members and professional development and growth opportunities for our own workforce, all from a climate and green informed lens. And so that was our very first strategy. 

Got a shout out in Brookings as like one of the top 50 strategies or whatever for green jobs and climate many moons ago, so I was super stoked about that. But we spent 2 years implementing that strategy, and from that we launched programs, we launched initiatives. We created C3, our public-private partnership. We developed our signature workforce development program called Jumpstart, which focuses on young people 18 and 24. So yeah, we definitely had tons of different opportunities that we were able to create from that very first strategy, which kind of laid the foundation and said, hey, we need to create some infrastructure for us to be able to scale up. An impact in this space. So our first strategy 2023 to 2025 did that. And now as we look to our 2025 climate workforce strategy, it's kind of like the sequel to that or like the next level of that, which is, hey, we created this great foundation that didn't exist before, how do we go faster, how do we go farther, how do we scale things up? And that's where we're at now, which hopefully will be approved by council next month. That's amazing. Congratulations. Yeah. All right, so you personally, and I already hearing you speak and the your passion for all of this, you describe yourself as a change maker and a good trouble seeker, which we know was coined by John Lewis. So how do you, how do you make good trouble, my friends? Oh goodness, um, I would say it's about listening and learning and then saying, hey, I'm recognizing these patterns and I'm hearing a lot of people say, hey, we're addressing this thing, but are we really? So let's be honest, let's call those things out and say, hey, how can we build ways to really get at what we need to do instead of just saying that we're getting at what we need to do. 

And one thing that I'll lift up is, I have a quick question for both of you, Laura, Nic. Have you ever waited 2 years to hear back about a job? Have I sat and waited or have it, has it taken that long to hear back? Have you ever sat and waited? Have you ever applied for a job and waited 2 years to hear back? No. No, no. All right, so in our region in particular, we have a problem. We have wonderful folks who graduate from pre-apprenticeship programs that teach the foundational skills you need in order to enter into apprenticeship programs, and what ends up happening is Young people graduate from these pre apprenticeship programs, they apply for apprenticeship programs in the electrical trades or other skilled trades areas, and they have to wait. They have to wait long periods of time in order to actually test for that opportunity or get access to interview for that opportunity that they might not get on even after that long week. And so when I showed up from Los Angeles, where I came from and where I started my career, which was in the Southeast North Carolina, we didn't have this issue in the same way that it shows up in the Pacific Northwest, particularly in our county, and I've been speaking about that, you know, it's too long of a wait. We need, ah, especially, and I think we often hear about this, and y'all probably heard about this too. We have a shortage of folks who are qualified skilled tradesmen, you know, and we need more people, just numbers-wise, we need more people in these fields, but sometimes it can take such a long time or the way to access those apprenticeship opportunities is so complex that we just don't see the uptake, or we don't see the investment, or we don't see the folks actually transitioning into those apprenticeship opportunities at the same rate that we should. So I've, you know, noticed that, and what we did to address that is we created programming where we worked directly with these local pre furniture programs to connect them to small businesses so they could get experience on their resume, make them more competitive, put money in their pocket, and also give them experience of working on projects that have to do with clean energy deployment, cause you don't know whether you are a good fit for something unless you try it sometimes, especially as a young person. 

So, you know, the apprenticeship pipeline issue is an issue that, you know, needs serious examination and we've been talking about it, and we've been activating ways to help people get the experience that they're seeking from entering into these pre-apprenticeship programs in a tangible and meaningful way. And so I'm excited that we've been doing that. I count that as good trouble because I think we have this narrative, especially in our section of the country, that like, all labor is good labor, like all their partners are always doing amazing things and they are, but there are problems, and those problems result from, like, you know, infrastructure that's been put in place that sometimes doesn't always hit the goal that we're seeking. So I think developing programs, developing policies, developing procedures that Helps us better reach our goals, which is to have a skilled, informed workforce that reflects the diversity of our region, is a part of the trouble. So I think that's the one thing on our list, calling things out, but not just calling things out, like developing solutions that people can actually uptake and scale. So I think those are the things that count as like big trouble. But um I don't know, I think it's different depending on who you talk to, right? Yes, everyone, I think, makes their good trouble in their own way. But yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I worked in Syracuse for a while, and I worked with the manufacturing association, and they actually have a really good workforce program where they're working on that because it's not climate related necessarily, but they have a shortage of skilled laborers in the manufacturing industry. And so they're, and we're running into the same thing. The companies that can be apprentices, it's low on their priority list because they're just busy doing the work. So unless there's a third party that comes in and encourages them to do it, you know, there's award ceremonies and you get sponsorship and kudos and in the news and all of that, then you bump up, I want to do an apprenticeship in my list of to do is because at least there's some sort of reward from it, not just like pumping out people into the workforce. So that was a cool program to be involved with as well. I agree. I agree.

And I am a fan of apprenticeship. I think it's a model that works. But it can't be the only model that we're using, like hiring people as employees, as entry-level employees, and supporting their growth and development is also a model too, and we're excited about how, you know, we work with local businesses to directly hire young people from programs that we promote or programs that we partner with to get them on as employees and make sure that they have the support they need after they're hired, and that's a valuable and valuable model as well. Absolutely. And uh I'm gonna sneak in here and like for me like I love it when uh for interviewing for entry level and they ask me like what's my day to day, like what do you want me to do for this company? I love saying I want you to figure out what you like and what you don't, and I want you to be honest about it. Because the sooner we get there, the better it's gonna be for both of us. I love saying that, and that's like kind of what we're talking about here. It's not just having the opportunity, but having an opportunity with a manager that knows what that means, and a community that gets it too. It's really cool to see all that kind of come together here. Yeah, I agree. And also, I think we'll talk about this enough, having a sense of purpose in your work. I think, you know, there are so many rewards that come from working in the sustainability space, working in the climate space, working in the environmental sector that connects to a sense of purpose and contribution, and I think a lot of our young people, especially now, are hungry for that. And I think entering into the clean energy field, entering into the skilled trades, is a way to get out, work with your hands, work with your heart, work with your environment, and get that done and get that feeling and get that sense of purpose, while also, you know, providing for yourself and your family. Yeah, so what would you say to one of those persons who, you know, they haven't gotten their first job yet, but they're just starting to look like, what would you advise them to do? I think it's about not being afraid to try new things and not being afraid to explore. I think especially our young people, our early career folks, they always think you have to check every single box on a position description in order to be qualified for that role. 

That is not the case. There are so many people, especially now these days, who are in very high up positions that are not always very qualified for every single piece of that role. So I think that it's important for our young people to say, hey, this is something that looks cool, looks interesting, something I might want to explore. Let me throw my hat in the ring, like let me give it a shot. And also the other thing I think I come from a very entrepreneurial community, a very work focused community. Don't be afraid to make your own job, make your own role. Like, I don't want to like lean into like hustle. Sure here, but like a little bit, it's important to get out, like network, make sure people know you, know your interests, and say, hey, you know, could I come in and shadow you? Could I have a conversation with you? Could we have a coffee chat? Like, and people are surprised about how often that can lead to a paid opportunity, which is worth it. Oh, people love talking about themselves. They love doing. Oh, they do. That's what that's why I'm here right now. You got me. Well, there are, there are the people who love talking about themselves, but then that group that is just starting, they're afraid to talk about themselves, because I, I work with them on how, you know, update your LinkedIn, and they're like, what? You gotta put something about yourself on their foot. Yeah, they share 100 versions with me before they're like, OK, I'll try this one. Yeah, yeah, that is so important though, because what I've also seen over the years is that the flip side of that, the networking and trying things, that all helps you to see what you like and to build a connection, but it also builds your confidence, which is the key to getting the Job. So if you stay home, the minus side of staying home and just submitting applications and crossing your fingers that someone will call you back, you're the opposite. You're getting more insecure. Whereas if you're putting yourself out there and networking and meeting people and just seeing what you like and exploring things, you're building that confidence that you also need. 

Yeah, career exploration is a muscle. You have to, you know, use it in order to build it up, that connectivity, that tissue, right? So I I think exploring that and doing it, learning through doing is something that we should be talking about like way more often than we are. And, you know, going back to the beginning of our conversation, that's why I was so grateful to, you know, attend one Wilson College and like get connected because I felt like I learned so much from work and from, you know, how to show up, how to get things done, how to be a person that can clearly communicate the value of what I'm doing. I learned that, you know, there, and I use those skills all the time, and when I chat with young people or connect with folks who participate in our programs, those are the themes that I'm constantly coming back to. Yeah, I mean, I really could have used that. I remember going from school to work and I'm like, this is so different. I don't even understand what I'm doing. Like, it's like I have a degree and I'm copying things every day. That was kind of like a shock in a way. I was like, oh, this is not at all like what I thought it would be. So that would have been nice for me. But I, yeah, yeah, but I mean we have a segment here we like to call field notes where we ask our guests to talk about memorable moments doing their jobs. 

And so we love for people to send us our funny, scary, awkward field moments and we'll read them on future episodes and you can send that to info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com. But Michael, you mentioned connecting with Governor Jay Inslee and teaching young people about skilled trade and climate action. What's the story there? Where's that, that funny scary, awkward? I think it was a crazy experience because we were funded. King County was funded by the Washington State Good Jobs Challenge, and we had some really great folks that worked with us to help design some of our programs and our community engagement and our outreach. Shout out to Angie from Washington STEM and what ended up happening was we got an invitation to host the governor at our one of our training partners. And I was like, oh this is so cool. Like, you know, our program is very climate focused. Like I don't know if folks know, but our governor, former governor in Washington state, also ran for president on a sustainability and climate informed like platform, like he's like definitely a leader in the field and we were super excited to host him. And it was like a surreal slash like interesting experience to like have that we got to chat and talk and like, you know, he shared a lot about his commitment to career development for young people and career development in the state in general, and that was super awesome. And we of course invited all of our partners, all of our young people, the employers and our networks, so there's like tons of people there, and the event ends, the former governor and his staff are like walking through like the crowd, and he, they're just like swarmed like tons of people being like, Can I get a picture? Can I get a selfie? Can I get this thing? And I'm like, oh God, like they're not going to want to take. Like a photo with us or our like our partners or our youth if they're like in this huge crowd taking like a bunch of photos and I'm like, oh no, we've like muddled this like this is like the one opportunity to get a really good because at that point he was still governor. 

So I was like, oh we need this photo op, it's like so important. And I was like, oh we missed it. Oh we're not going to get it. And I'm like, ah, as like a program leader like that that is like this is such a failure on my part. I feel so terrible. I didn't do this thing. And so they're leaving the building and I grab my staff and some of our youth that came to speak at the event and I was like, we are going to head to the front door, like right outside the building, and we're going to catch them right as they go outside and we are just going To like make this happen, basically we're going to make this happen. So yeah, we hustle, I hustle all of our folks out to the front door and they're coming out and his staff is like, Oh, I'm sorry, no more pictures. We took a bunch of pictures in there, no more pictures, he's like, we really have to go. And I was like, well, we're here with our young people, and we're here with our program staff, and we're here with our employers, and I just know that the governor's gonna want to get a picture with all these wonderful people that make this program happen that he talked about earlier, right? And the, his wonderful staff is like, yes, of course, let's arrange it. Let's get it going. So we actually ended up getting the picture and put it on our website for the Coalition for Climbing Careers. I'm so happy I got that. But like that particular interaction taught me, yes, it's awesome and amazing when the great work that you do gets a spotlight from the leaders in your state. But it's also important to grab that photo. Yes, yeah, and make it happen. You made it happen, and that's not easy. That's really hard. That's also a skill, by the way, and being pushy, yeah, definitely. If you've never read that reminded me of uh Chris Voss's Never split the difference. If you've never read it, I promise you'd love it. That's great. You know, it's fine. 

So we're coming to the end of the interview already, and so they always go fast, but, you know, uh, which is a shame, but like one of the theme of this somewhat has been, you know, connecting and connecting communities, connecting people, and one of the things we love to end on is what our guests' hobbies are, what they like to do for fun outside of that. It's another way people can connect with you. So outside of climate work, you're also a spoken word poet and have even won competitions, which is wild and really cool, and congratulations. What do you write about? What is it, is any of it climate focused? Is that like is or is it outside of that? Or can you just drop something right now? Ah, I wish I could. I feel like I'm more, I'm more of a um a multidimensional poet, so a lot of my stuff is about growing up in New York City. A lot of my stuff is like funny, relatable type things like I do a lot of love poems, I do poems that are focused on like different characters or different like experiences that I've had before, so I definitely would say it's like not climate related, um. And in terms of like dropping something now, I feel like, you know, this is a family friendly podcast, you know, the PG podcast. So if, um, but if folks are in like the Seattle area, then you open mic you'll probably see me. So that's the place in space for me to share my art. Uh, it's very distinctive from my work in my career and like in the climate space. But I do think it helps with like my communication skills, like, you know, knowing how to make things resonate with folks, knowing how to persuade, knowing how to like create connections. I think the work that I do in poetry like definitely influences the work that I do in the climate space, but it's just a very different. I mean, you're talking to somebody who like, I was like, I need to get better at public speaking, I know, stand up comedy, that's how I'll do it. And so, yeah, I totally feel you. I totally get it. 

Totally understand that's what we love. Like, you don't have to be people, oh, you're such a professional. You have to always be a professional in your day to day work, especially in government. But that's what we like about this part of the podcast is you also can be human and do other things that include swear words and ideals and more than good trouble. You know what I'm saying? Like you're, you're allowed to also. Have another life and uh one that is authentic to you. And so we are running out of time though. Is there anything else you want to chat about before we let you go? I just want to thank you for the opportunity to speak about the work that I do and speak about the 2025 climate workforce strategy for King County and the Coalition for Climate Careers. If you're in the King County area, Seattle area, Puget Sound area, like take a look at those resources, take a look at the work that's happening there. It is still happening in our communities, like, despite, you know, the things that are happening at the federal level, climate action, especially at the local level, is still continuing and it can have a significant impact. in your neighborhoods, your communities, for you it is an individual, like there's still opportunity there and I am that's one of the reasons why I did this. I wanted to communicate that to folks. I think sometimes there's this feeling of hopelessness that we sometimes have to fight, and I think getting involved in our local communities and supporting local initiatives and local job training programs and local partnerships like the Coalition for Climate Careers can help us feel a little bit more hopeful. Yeah. Perfect. 

That's a fabulous place to end, and we really enjoyed listening to all the great work that you're doing. And thank you so much for coming on the show. Last thing, where can other people get in touch with you? Yeah, shoot me a message on LinkedIn. Always happy to share more about the work that I do and how folks can get involved and engaged. And, you know, I am a public employee, so you're always free to email me as well, and that email is MICarter@kingcounty.gov. But also hit me up on my LinkedIn, Michael Carter. Awesome, thank you so much. Thank you. That's our show. Thank you, Michael, for joining us today. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Bye. See you, everybody.