Consulting, Working on the I-4 Project, and Giving Back to the Community with Ben Shepard

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we talk with Ben Shepard, Environmental Lead for the Moving I-4 Forward Program about Consulting, Working on the I-4 Project, and Giving Back to the Community.  

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Ben Shepherd at https://www.linkedin.com/in/benj-shepherd/

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

A Special thanks to our sponsor for this episode Perkins Coie - https://perkinscoie.com/

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental enthusiasts, Nick and Laura. On today's episode, Laura and I talk about how we give back. We talked to Ben Shepherd about consulting, working on the I-4 project, and giving back to his community. And finally, our bird of the day is the crested Kakara. They look like a hawk, behave like a vulture, and are actually a falcon. They are the only falcons that make nests. They love solving puzzles, and perhaps most mischievously, they love stealing red objects like hats or gloves. So if you are in the southern part of the United States and you see a really wild looking uh eagle. That sits on the ground, it will take your red stuff. So how about that? They really are super cool birds. They look amazing. You got to check them out. So they are cool birds, but they also like to sit on fences. Yeah, like a like you're talking. Like they don't make decisions like they're like, ah, we'll just see how this plays out. They sit on fences and ponder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I could eat, but all right, get that music. 

We like to give a great shout out to Perkins Coie for sponsoring this episode. Perkins Coie is a leading global law firm dedicated to helping the world's most innovative companies solve the legal and business challenges of tomorrow. Learn more about their work and values at www.Perkinscoie.com, which is P E R K I N S C O I E.com. 

Uh, let's get to our segment. How are we monsters? I'm not a monster. Uh, no, because you made the joke about giving back and you're like, I basically Everything I do. No, but giving back takes a lot of different forms, right? I think it's really cool to have our guest really is doing a lot of other things to give back to the community that he's in. I'm actually in a new community, so I'm kind of literally looking for, where's my give back, you know, where is that? So I'm actually looking for new spots to do that exact thing, and sometimes it just takes a minute. Like I love the idea of teaching, I think it's wonderful. I used to do that back in the day, but there's all kinds of volunteer organizations. I'm actually literally like going through the process of trying to figure out where I can do that. I mean, I don't know if you know this about me, Laura, but I get really antsy if I'm not doing anything. But I didn't think you had time to not do anything though. Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah, but even so, I try to fill like every, every gap for whatever reason, I want to fill it up with something. And like, I have to let go of some things to find more community-based things to do. I just like doing it. I can't help it. I like being out. But you're the same way. I mean, I know you have like you're that's what I was thinking when you're saying that like. 

So people who give back are the people who are already doing a lot and then they just do more. Like our guest is like, oh, I have this job and I'm working on 18 million projects, and then I also do this and that. I've seen that before with other guests, but yeah, I mean, giving back is there's volunteer work, but then there's also work you can do as giving back, but you still get paid like the career coaching that I do. It's not something I should be doing. It takes up time away from me, building the companies I want to build. Right. But I feel like there's a need for it and so I still do it and then, but then my give back is that I'm not charging as much as some people out there are. But then there's also like in my companies as I build them, I'm making sure there are opportunities for, we have a first-time author award in the. a publishing company. So we're giving back by publishing a free book for someone every year. And then we have discounts for artists and teachers. So there's givebacks kind of built into all of that. But then there's the, OK, I'm done with work. I'm going to go volunteer at the SPCA. You know, there's that kind of give back too. So I think people can, I think that if you say what kind of community stuff you're doing, people are automatically like, well, you mean on my weekend? Yeah, oh man, but there's lots of different ways. Like, I mean, I helped one of my friends build a garden bed, like a 4 by 10, and it's just, I went to go get wood and mulch or compost, I was corrected, actually, um, and it's like, you know, 26 bags of compost. That's a ton of compost. 

I didn't realize how much you needed to build something like that, and, you know, it's like, oh I'll split it with you. I'm like, uh, we're good. Yeah, I owe you. So, you know, those countless givebacks too. It's nice to see that, to do that kind of thing when you have the ability to. And I don't know, but I still kind of like, you know, I think like when you get into your 40s, like your sense of community is really, really important, and, you know, I think what you moved to New York, you know, you have, you're building your community, I'm building mine here and it's really cool to see. And so it's, it's funny that, you know, because Casey asked us that and I'm like, that's a great question. I'm trying to figure out where is my gift? Where, where can I, where can I find that now? Yeah. And then there's just the give back where you just give them money. And the frustrating thing for me, being an entrepreneur and always like bootstrapping everything. There are things that I wanted to give money to you or I have given to you for a little while, adopted an elephant for a while. I would love to adopt another elephant, but I'm like, OK, when I reached this point, when I reached this point, you know, so you have to, I guess for most people who are in the positive mindset, the more they get, the more they give. So that's why you end up with people who are So busy already, but they're so grateful for those things that then they feel like I have to keep giving back also. Yeah, and like, I don't know, it's kind of like, you know, it's funny, first of all, shout out to Elephant Nature Park in Thailand, by the way, that is one that I have actually donated to as well and been to, and it's wonderful and if you're ever going to Thailand, you should do that. 

Um OK. Daphne Sheldrick in Kenya, same thing. So yeah, but no, I mean, even like organizationally, right, like in AAP I'm about to become the vice president and it's because I want letting you do that. I just don't know. I don't know. I'm very thankful for it, but that's a, that's it for me, it's like, it helped me a ton, especially early in my career, and we've got a lot of stuff going on, and it feels like the right thing to do, even if it's gonna be hard and I don't have time for it. I really, really want to do it and to do it because of that, which I didn't even think of this podcast, this podcast is a lot of our time. It's kind of a, a lot of give back. Yeah, it is funny cause like, I don't know, even small things like it's trying to find speakers that that people want to listen to and like every time I see Casey's face, I'm like, oh yeah, I gotta remind Fred to get us the contact information for the person she wants to hear from, and he has it, by the way, I just have to go find him, and I'm I'm also saying it here, so when he hears this. He'll remember to send me that info, but yeah, there's lots of ways that you can do it, and I think that's kind of the fun part, right? It should be tailored to what you like to do, you know, of course, absolutely. And what you care about, obviously. That's what I mean, yeah. OK, well, let's listen to our guest, and he has lots to share about his community involvement. There we go. Let's get to our segment. It was the interview. Uh, nice try. Dang it. It took you that long to figure it out. I was like I nailed it. I'm so good at this, yeah. 

Hello and welcome back to EPR. 

Today we have Ben Shepherd with us. Ben is the Florida eco-sciences manager at Atkins Realis and a lifelong environmental steward with roots in rowing, wetlands, and wildlife. Welcome, Ben, great to have you here. Hey, welcome. Thanks for having me. So, we love talking about people's journeys on the show, like where they started and where they ended up, and your academic journey, you thought you'd study architecture. So how did you get into biology and conservation from there? Yeah, it's, I don't know if it's like super crazy, but in high school I um apprenticed for an architect who did mostly historical buildings and I used to draw a lot and he only drew like by hand, so nothing was CAD-based or on a computer. He actually doesn't even own a computer and so. You know, I was also rowing at the time in high school and I was getting recruited to a few schools, and one of them happened to be the University of Wisconsin and going up there, loved the campus based on the, you know, having worked for an architect for a few years at a time, you know, Frank Lloyd Wright went to, he was an alumni of the University of Wisconsin and so I was like, of course they're gonna have an architecture program, get to the university, of course they don't have an architecture. Uh, you know, his studio for a long, long time was in Chicago. He had built an entire neighborhood in Madison where the University of Wisconsin is, and yet, yeah, nothing. So, um, it was kind of searching around the campus for what would stick, what I liked doing. And I kept coming back to the environmental program and it turns out that Wisconsin has a great environmental program going back to the late 1800s, early 1900s. Wow, and there's a whole history there. So that's what kind of started me into the path and from there I really didn't know what I was gonna do when I graduated, so I did the best thing which is go to grad school and not think about it for another. Yeah, I know the feeling. Yeah, so, um, did that moved back to Florida where I'm from, and, yeah, started the journey really. So, OK, so you decided you get, you're like, hey, I'm gonna do, uh, conservation and I'll learn how to do it in Wisconsin, and then I'm gonna go back to Florida, which I can't think of a climate further away from Wisconsin, and that's where I'll do it. Was there like a shock when you started? Did you do field work and you're like in your first wetland, you're like, why did I why did I?

So the two like really stories that stick out like at the university there. One was I took a dendrology class and it just so happened that it was in winter, so we weren't looking at a lot of leaves a lot of bark. And that kind of hones like some skills for me and the second was I took a class in ichthyology, so like fishes, and Wisconsin is historically known for their limnology program. which is the study of inland water systems. So it's up there with like Yale and I think there's a few others that are really world renowned. And in that I theology class, there's myself and another teammate from the rowing team. And again frozen tundra and they're like hey go do some studies out there and we literally walked along the frozen lake to a bunch of like people doing ice fishing and you know we did it after practice thinking like people will just be getting out there now there's like some people that are like absolutely hammered uh like 9 in the morning like fishing, yeah, yeah, that's Wisconsin, yeah, yes, so yeah, it's that's what it really started it was. You know, it's like fun to talk about and experience. None of it translated to come back to Florida and it was really like starting over the one piece that that did translate and this was something that my major professor at university was into was habitat restoration and specifically using fire. So when I got into grad school, I focused on fire as a restoration tool. And did my study in um the panhandle of Florida on Eglin Air Force Base where they do a burns so um yeah that was, that's what started it. 

That's what kind of the link to Wisconsin was, and then just kind of went from there, yeah, and you were like, I am never dealing with cold ever again. I know, yeah, yeah, I just went back. I just went back to Wisconsin this year it's the first time in a long time it's like I'll never visit in the winter. It's just right. Yeah, so tell us a little bit, so you've gone through that, that process, you're at Atkins Realis now, um, you've been there for 20 years. So what's kind of kept you rooted in Atkins and like we, we'll dive into what you're doing on a day to day as well. Yeah, so I'll caveat that. So I started actually at a firm called PBS and J. It was founded in Florida and it was through like kind of a family connection, somebody that knew somebody and they were hiring an entry level basically hold a GPS and go help flag some wetlands on a couple of projects. And for your listeners, I was hired in '07 at PBSNJ. The recession or the recession hit like shortly thereafter and so the building I'm in, which we owned at the time, three-story building, had like 400 people in it. Today there's maybe 80, 80 to 100. And it's we cover one floor. So I try to tell my junior staff now like there's some perspective on like this place was packed and that really was a crunch and so what ended up happening was I tried to become a jack of all trades and kind of learn the whole consulting field and one of the ways we did it was PBS and J had a really strong oil and gas program at the time. 

We had a lot of clients in Louisiana and Texas. And I took that opportunity, so I actually had an apartment here in Florida and one in uh I split between Houston and Shreveport and had a standing flight every 2 weeks and we fly there, stay there for 2 weeks, fly back for 2 weeks. And so I was doing field collection stuff, the 2 weeks out there and then the data processing. Back here and we're, you know, permitting big gas pipelines and we happen to translate that into pretty big gas pipeline projects called FGT Phase 8, which was, uh, I think a 36 inch liquid natural gas pipeline that started in Mobile and went all the way to Miami. So we did. Yeah, it's like 480 miles um with all the laterals and everything. We did all the wetlands delineations, all the surveys, all the permitting through the core DEP, FERC, you name it, and that's like literally opposite of Wisconsin, like, yeah, and that is wetlands in Louisiana. Yikes. So that's what started it all for at least 4 years. I transitioned out of PBS and J. They were acquired by Atkins and I went to go work at the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission for a few years there and that was a great experience too, so. Awesome. That's a long history, and they've been traded so many times. What does it, does it change every time? So for someone who doesn't work in consulting or is starting to look into it, is that something? I know when it happens, people get terrified, but having been through several changes, what's your take on that? Yeah, so I, I've actually Had the process happen in a few different ways. One was the transition from PBS and J to Atkins, and Atkins at the time was a, I think a London-based company, and it was great for us. We had more resources and more opportunities. PBS and J was, was mostly a transportation, oil and gas kind of firm, and Atkins was doing other things like outside of that. And so for a lot, a lot of folks, they were getting plugged into other projects. I stepped back into the Fish and Wildlife Commission, did that for a while, and then until I came back here to Atkins Realis, I was at a firm called Inwood Consulting Engineers, and by the end of my career there, I was a shareholder in the firm. I was one of 13 shareholders.

And we actually sold to a bigger company and so I could see it from that perspective on why we're selling, who we're selling to, how we're vetting those folks, and then what that process looks like to lower staff as well. So it's like do they have opportunities. And making sure that's the right fit. So that was interesting to me and, and now coming back to Atkins Realis where we do so many things and it's, you know, I think we're 38,000 people on 6 to 7 continents. Amazing. Yeah, it's a lot of cool opportunities like immediately getting plugged in to work in Massachusetts and Texas and here in Florida obviously and elsewhere, yeah, that's great. So currently in your role now that you're Atkins Reis, is that right? I'm so good at getting names wrong. I'm like really proud of you actually. I did it. What are you doing? What kind of projects are you working on now? So, the big one that we've been plugged in with is it's called Moving I4 Forward. So a few years ago, the governor and state legislature approved what's called the Moving Florida Forward program, and they identified 20 projects around the state, infrastructure projects. To help bring like road improvements to reality that were, they've been planned but like maybe the plans have been shelved or like something happens and they just have funding and so the legislature provided the funding to get these things started and Ekins Realis was brought in right before I was hired to do like website designs and public involvement coordination. And just through like a series of events, they needed some permitting help and I happened to work in as the deputy project manager for two permitting contracts that overlapped the entire project and so I just kept saying yes, like, hey, we'll do that and like we'll do this and you can absolutely do all the permitting and. And it's been awesome to see. It's a crazy amount of work, so like all of the field work, the NEPA studies that have to be re-evaluated. 

There's 7 big projects. One is actually we permitted over the winter holiday last year, us and the Army Corps were like literally trading notes back and forth on New Year's Eve to get the permit issued in time for. The contractor to like wow, um, yeah, like I was on vacation skiing and I'm like getting a call from the Army Corps. I'm like, yes, like let's make that condition happen right yeah, yeah, and but like what's cool to see is the governor came to the I-4 office last week or earlier this week and like the project, the one project that we got permitted is open and The next 3 projects are advertised and like we're getting permits right now and they're huge, huge projects right through the Disney area so it'll provide like a ton of congestion relief in an area that really needs it. There's a ton of traffic and I think ever since COVID a lot of people have been moving to Florida or visiting Florida way more than prior to COVID, so. But even prior to COVID, I-4 is a notorious highway. Notorious, notorious highway, and yeah, this project is supposed to alleviate a lot of the congestion in the area, so. Oh, very fun. Other than that, yeah, Atkins Realis also won another of those moving forward to forward projects. It's called the I-75 phase design build. So similar concept to the I4 we're just on a different side of it on the contractor side and 

Again, we, we provided the permitting support drainage to accelerate part of that project already like, so one of the areas is like already open, yeah, we're looking to move species soon. Anticipation for widening the whole, the whole stretch was like 22 miles on either lane. That's much needed too. All the in states of Florida need help. But also surrounded by so much wildlife, so what an important job. Yeah, and that's kind of dovetails into something that I'm passionate about and I work a lot in is wildlife crossings. So I've had the opportunity to work in uh what's called DOT District 5, which has a lot of black bears and then DOT District 1, which has bears, but really the panthers, the big Keystone species. And been able to like work on projects where we're building new wildlife crossings, permitting them, and then was part of a group in District 5 that permitted, it was like the first project in the nation to receive wetland credit for a new wildlife crossing. So to kind of incentivize building more because wildlife crossings are expensive. I mean they start at probably $2 million and go up from there. Wow. So yeah, it's, it's a cool like feather in the cap, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Who initiates those projects? So DOT is doing studies, but they're also getting input from, you know, like NGOs and just outside science staff. It really just depends. So the one we did where we got well in credit. That was a combination of DOT, us, universities, and like doing a big long like 40 mile study of the corridor. What are the issues and like the University of Central Florida was doing like hair snare sampling for. Black bears and putting GPS trackers on turtle shells and tracking along the way and so you know you can really hone in on where the wildlife crossing should go and then it's just a matter of like programming the funding and that's a long process or can be. Yeah I can imagine.

 But like I, I love the idea, like, there's like a famous picture of like a mountain lion using one at one point, and you know, you see something like that, you're like, that's cool, that is really neat to see um uh DC does a really good job of promoting the crossings they have and You know, having worked in District one, like Brent Central and Nicole Money's, they help host a website that has them like so you can go and click on these crossings, see the crossing. They have videos like that are updated regularly, um, so you can see the panther, alligator or whatever. He said that they have tools to promote them and my mind immediately went to like to the animals, so I'm picturing animals sitting down and like checking out the website. Where are these corridors? Where do we go? Oh yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah, um, Laura, oh man, too funny. Um, but you know, like I said, honestly, we probably could spend like the entire time talking about I4, but I, I know you have lots of other things that you are part of too, so I wanna kind of like try to see if we can marry some of that together a little. You're also on like the lake advisory Committee, and, and I hope I'm saying this right, Maitland. I nailed it. OK. You never know, especially the further south you go, the stranger, the what looks like a normal word gets pronounced, but um. So what, what kind of local government environmental concerns come up most in that community and then how is being on there helped impact your work, how you work on bigger projects like I. Yeah, I think the, the big issue with all lakes in Florida and definitely in Central Florida is the amount of growth around them and then how people like use their property so. You know, having a green lawn is very important to a lot of, a lot of folks, and so when you're using fertilizers and things like that, they often run off into the lakes and as a result, you'll get like eutrophication, so a ton of things like blooming all at once and then they die off and there's could be fish kills and other stuff like that. 

The other big thing is invasive species that come in. Yeah, a variety of ways and so oftentimes like not just the city of Maitland but you know, around Central Florida like Hydria is a is a major nuisance chokes out the water bodies and, you know, from a just a recreating standpoint just makes it very difficult for some of the lakes to get around. So is that position for you just kind of like a give back? It is, yeah, I've tried to like. Not that I have all the free time in the world, but um. I did want to do something within the community and that was the most logical to me. I live near one of the lakes that the city of Maitland manages. I regularly paddle boat on it and run around the lake. So for me, I wanted to see something and make sure that we're doing the right things for the lake. They have a really good program at the city of Mainland, that's not the case for every municipality. And a lot of times I think there's like misinformation about how lakes are managed or why they're managed in a certain way. And one of the things on my resume is I was the project manager for the lake management plans for the Fish and Wildlife Commission for Lake Okeechobee, the Kissimmee Chain Lakes, and lakes. So those are. Three major water systems in Florida and what we would hear when we were doing all of the like preliminary work with stakeholders in the area was, was very different. So like Harris chain, they were worried about getting on the lakes for recreating. The Kissimmee chain, it was really well known for fishing and the same with Okeechobee and Kissimmee had hydrill issues. Okeechobee has all sorts of issues, some of which were plant-based and some were based because of how the water levels are regulated. 

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Um, so every system is like pretty unique and different and yeah, the I like providing that insight to the city of Maitland, the council there cause A lot of it is like citizen scientists or just people that live on the lake and they, they want something that may not be scientifically appropriate for the area. Right, and I, I mean, you know, there's countless examples of that kind of thing, and I, I remember one, I, I can't remember exactly. I think it might have been hydrilla where somebody's like, oh, I'll just chop it up with like a chopper or like, you know, an aquatic, a lawn mower, but when you cut it up, it just makes way more of the plant because each one of them works it's so much worse. And that was a citizen science kind of like, ah, I've got the solution to the problem, making it way, way, way, way, yeah, um, so that's hard to do. So how do you manage that? Because the intention is really good. It's a noble intention that ends up being an accident. Like how do you avoid that kind of thing? How do you get people to hear maybe what they don't want to hear? Yeah, it's, you know, honestly, it's a long process. I, I wish I could say that you would just point to some research papers and then people would read it and oftentimes like, you know, I'm like joking about like do your own research crowd and Um, but really like it's about approaching them, um, or folks at their level and kind of understanding what their concerns are and why and like validating their concerns, but at the same time coming in with some of that historical knowledge and why water systems are managed the way they are, because the big one is like any sort of like chemical application in the water systems and why that's used. Right, that seems to be like the, the big negative, and that was when I first got on the, the Lakes Advisory council at Mainland, but when you actually peeled back the data, the city of Maland was using very little aquatic herbicide, like at all. And they were managing in a way that was like very sustainable moving forward. And so it was like educating the council and other stakeholders about the management and why things were managed the way they were and just putting it in very simply. So you're working on these projects and working on the advisory committee, as if you didn't have enough spare time, you're also teaching at Rollins College, right? Yeah, yeah. So what, how did you get into teaching and was that something you always wanted to do or you just fell into it? Yeah, there's so there's like two like different parallel tracks that like intersected at some point. One was in high school, I was on the rowing team and Two of the people that I rode with, their dad founded the environmental studies program at Rawlins. Oh, cool. So growing up I've known him for 30 years almost and so like we'd always stayed in touch and they'd had some openings for positions. And then, you know, fast forward into my career, and my previous employer, he happened to teach at Rollins as an adjunct, and he was stepping back as his kids were getting older, like ready to go to college, and he wanted to spend more time before they're out of the house. He's like, hey, you want to take over this program or A couple of courses that I teach and I was like yeah sure um between those two things, that's what really started it. 

I've grown up around Rollins College and like again like the idea of giving back to like kind of the next folks that are gonna take this industry over doesn't always happen that way. One of the courses I teach is really an introductory course in environmental studies, and as a liberal arts college, Rollins requires every student regardless of major to take a lab. And so my lab class competes with physics and chemistry and psychology and everyone looks at those and is like, oh heck no, I'm doing pivot to the environmental studies thinking it's easy A and I think they're like sorely mistaken by like the first test. That's so funny, as I, I actually did teach at VCU, uh, originally Commonwealth for basically a couple of semesters after I graduated. Same exact thing, same exact thing. I was one of those students. I got a D in science for non-majors from my A degree. Oh my gosh. When I decided to go back for biology, I had to start over. Yeah, it's, it's rough. I, you know, the first year I taught, I really didn't have Know what like expectations to set on myself and the students and then by like year 3, like I'm very upfront on day one. I was like, do not screw around with like the first exam and like I would have students like just not get the book and think that they could like breeze through. I'm like no like 80% of the test is from the book, like just crack it open like you'll be halfway there, um. Yeah, so that's been interesting I like setting expectations for everybody. Do you find that you, you have a handful of students or any students that are transformed during the class and really get into it? I would like to think so. I had one last year who was a was an international affairs major and he was super engaged. His dad was a retired EPA like. Administrator like somewhere like pretty high up in the admin in the EPA. 

And so I think he had like an appreciation for the environmental studies like field, and he came prepared every day, always early, always asking questions, we would like go to dinner after the class and like to hash out some stuff that he was like thinking about and so there's been a couple of those students that are pretty memorable uh that stick out and that's always super rewarding, not the other ones that are like struggling the whole time. Yeah, gosh, I remember even having a student once who was like, she's like, oh, I'm failing a class, and I'm like, well, technically, if you finish this lab, you'll have a D, and they're like, oh, OK, cool. Well, now I don't care anymore, and I'm like, great, you know, thank you for that. Yeah, yeah, I've had, uh, yeah, those like kids that like will show up maybe 50% of the classes and then are surprised when they're not doing well. Right, yeah, yeah, that's always tough. The classes I taught, I, I did try to break it up into certain activities, do more field trips, yeah. The first year I didn't do a lot of field trips and I think that was. A disservice to the students versus like getting out in the field like understanding why certain trees or plants are growing where they are, you know why certain animal species are attracted to those things and um so they could like read it but then apply it in the field and by the end of the year we've done all the tests and it's like they are now applying the knowledge and um it's cool to see like how some of them do apply it and they're putting the critical thinking together. Yeah, that's very cool.

And that's a great segue to our segment we call Field Notes, uh, which is part of the show where we ask our guests to talk about memorable moments in the field doing the job. Um, folks that are listening to send their fun, awkward, or scary stories to us at info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com, and we will read those on a future episode. 

But Ben, when I tell you that, and we talked a little bit about your work in Louisiana, so what comes to mind? I mean, I, I feel like you have a few snake stories for us. I've got a couple. It's uh it seems that way. Yeah, Louisiana and Texas have a lot of moccasins. Yeah, um, and there was definitely one memory that will never, I'll never forget it, cause like we were tramping through this area to set like a pipeline corridor and All day we have been going through stream crossings and we had an ATV with us. We could go through the stream crossings just fine, but we hit like one stream and there was no way the ATV was crossing and we have to get to this like one area like we can see it, it makes sense to drive all the way around all day like we waste half a day like getting there. OK, we're just gonna walk through this, this thing. And we get in like GPSs above our head like looking like we're in the movie like Platoon or something, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, no joke, like the stream is like up to my chest and all of a sudden like a moccasin just like swims right in front of me and gosh I'm out of notes for the day. Yeah, we're just we're just gonna keep going. Yeah, like we finished the stuff. It, it was not the best moment, but you know, obviously lived to tell the tale and it's, it's a good story. Then yeah, those are sour snakes. That is, that is not a fun thing to see. So yeah, I, I feel you on that. Yeah, I, I do have another, yeah, another snake story. 

We were working in Marco Island, so that's uh southwest Florida, kind of south of Naples in this one area it's pretty urban. But there was one area that was still kind of forested, jungle, and we were out there with the water management district looking at where the wetland was and co-worker was like right in front of me. There's a bunch of like palm fronds in the way and she like steps on something, it's like, oh, and like kind of jumped and I was walking right behind her and then like looked and I was like, huh? And it was the biggest fattest python I've ever seen. Oh wow, it was massive, definitely over 10 ft, and the, the person from the water management district that was with us was on, I guess their like Python team to like hunt these things down. And by the time we like all processed what was going on and what this thing was that we had stepped on, we couldn't find it like none of us had moved, none of us had moved. And I was like, this thing doesn't move that fast, like what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we looked like around the area for a good like 1015 minutes, couldn't find it. I was like, I think that's pretty terrifying, uh, so we're gonna wrap this up. That's amazing. Yeah, oh my gosh, but I mean, that speaks to one of their problems, right, of actually trying to catch them. Yeah it was like I saw the quarter map. I'm going over there. Yeah, right, right, right. I know that guy, yeah, yeah. 

I know how to get out of here. Totally, yeah, they're dipping out, but yeah, those are a few snake stories. The good stories, the ones that I like being part of in the field or just like, I was actually, I don't get in the field too often anymore, but was able to do so this week for um a care survey, so it's a Oh yeah. In in Florida they're a threatened species and so they require like early morning surveys and so you just like get the fog come like at least on Tuesday we had like the fog rolling and the sunrise and it's like cool and it was just a very nice day to be in the field and you're like ah this is what I I'm in the field for, right? There's been a few of those for sure. Yeah, those are, those are beautiful moments, honestly, it's like really fun to be like, you know, when it's quiet and the weather's like a good temperature, you got like nice breeze going. It's like, honestly, you're like, why would I ever not do this? And then you do it. The next day, and it's 85,000 degrees and you're like, all right, this is why and or 5 million mosquitoes, right, right, right, yeah, there's some say like delineating wetlands in August in Florida is like 100,000% humidity, million mosquitoes. Yeah, there's times I felt they need a blood transfusion when I get back to the office. Oh man, yeah. We didn't really talk about, you know, you started off rowing. Do you still paddle, row, and get out there? You know, not as often as I would like a paddle board, that's way less intense. Yeah. Uh, I do get in our high school still gets together for what they call an alumni race and so all of us old farts, uh, challenge the high school kids. 

No way, yeah, and, uh, you know, we've got a good streak going. Really of losing or you got, oh yeah, no, we're, we're like champions like 10 years running, I think. Oh, all right, I'll take it back, yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's not me at all. Leary. I'm, I'm now old enough to where like I'm in like the B or C boat. Right, right, right, but yeah, like the, the rowing team. I, I came from, they've had really good success recently and like, not just me going to college and rowing, but like people that are on the national team and one person was in the Olympics. So put a couple of those people on the boat against some uh undersized high schoolers and it's always fun. And then we bet, we bet breakfast, so we haven't had to pay for breakfast in like a decade. That's fantastic. That's a great, I like that. Yeah, that is awesome. Yeah, and then, uh, not too often, but uh I was mentioned I was up in Wisconsin that was for the 20th anniversary of me graduating, but they had the 150th anniversary of Wisconsin men's rowing. So we did like a big like banquet celebration for that, like a fundraising opportunity and kind of where the program was and where it's going. So that was cool to see like I never get up there and don't get to see my old teammates as much as I'd like anymore. 

Yeah, time goes by super-fast, as does the time on this podcast, so. We are running out of time. Thank you for that segue. Is there anything that you would like to talk about we didn't touch on? I don't think so. Words of wisdom you want to leave us with? Oh, we're hiring. How about that? Hey, that's cool. Perfect, that's perfect. There are lots of listeners that like to hear those words. Yeah, perfect. We're hiring a couple of spots. We have a Tampa manager position open, so that would report to me. That should be on our website Atkinsreals.com or, uh, you know, email me directly. And then we're looking at maybe a uh mid-level kind of scientists in the Orlando area. So yeah, there's a couple opportunities on the horizon that we're really excited about and you just hope to keep doing good work for our clients in the community. Awesome. Love it. Well, thank you so much. This is great. Thank you. Where can people get in touch with you if they would like to reach out to you? Oh, perfect. Yeah, you can email me directly, uh ben. Shepherd S H E P H E R D at Atkinsrealis.com. Very cool. Thank you so much, Ben. Thank you. We would like to again thank Perkins Ci for sponsoring this episode, and that is the end of our show. Thank you, Ben, for joining us today. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Bye. See you, everybody.