Climate Sustainability, Carbon Removal, and Clean Tech with Sotiria Anagnostou

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we talk with Dr. Sotiria Anagnostou, Head of Climate Risk Technical Services and Executive Director of AZ CleanTech about Climate Sustainability, Carbon Removal, and Clean Tech. Read her full bio below.

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Showtimes: 
0:20 - Fun Cat Fact!
1:45 - Nic talks giving yourself a break
3:37 - Interview starts
21:01 - Game changers in climate tech
29:45 - Getting her start in climate in Puerto Rico 

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Dr. Sotiria Anagnostou at https://www.linkedin.com/in/sotiriaphd/

Guest Bio: 
Dr. Sotiria Anagnostou is a seasoned corporate sustainability executive with over 15 years of experience in ESG and sustainability, focusing on decarbonization strategies and climate risk. She holds a PhD in Climate Risk and Adaptation from Arizona State University and a MA in Energy and Environmental Analysis from Boston University. Sotiria has directed ESG integration and sustainability programs at major corporations, including STORE Capital, Ingevity Corporation, and Whirlpool, along with sustainable investing and ESG initiatives at Federated Investors. Her expertise encompasses climate adaptation, corporate sustainability, and leveraging data for informed decision-making, aiming to foster inclusive growth and resilience.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental enthusiasts, Nick and Laura. On today's episode, I offer words of encouragement. We talked to Doctor Sotiria Anagnostou about climate sustainability, carbon removal, and clean tech. And finally, today is about one weird cat fact. Did you know that Isaac Newton invented the cat door? And apparently, this is according to the internet, that when he was working at the University of Cambridge, he was constantly interrupted by his cats clawing at his door. So he called a carpenter and made two doors, one for the mama cat and one for the kittens, and you can still see those holes. In the university today, apparently, so there you go. Isaac Newton taking credit for cat doors as well. So what do you know, gosh, what else does he has he done? My goodness. Yeah, what a genius. Yeah, maybe cool it on that. Let, let someone else invent a cat door. That's all I'm saying, uh. 

Oh goodness, hit that music. 

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Let's get to our segment. 

You know, it's such a weird, it feels like a weird time, right? Like, it's a strange time, there's lots of different stuff going on, lots of different ways. I feel like we have to pay attention to the news every few minutes, and so much of that is exhausting and tiring. And stressful and it's just, there's no way around it, but we still have to take time for ourselves. We still have to remember that when you talk about duty and responsibility and honor, you also have to manage those things for yourself, right? It is not About making sure everyone else is OK all the time. You can't. And in times like this, it's really hard to understand and wrap your brain around taking care of yourself too. And so I don't know, I don't have a big message this week. I really don't, but that's kind of it, right? Just don't forget to take care of yourself. Don't forget to give yourself a break. Don't doom scroll all the time, you know, do it some, you know, do it some, but you don't have to do it all the time. 

You can give yourself a break, you can enjoy life. And even when times are stressful, even when news can be stressful, and it's something that I think takes time, cause so often when we're young, we want to be there for everybody in every way, and we can't be. It's just not possible. And we often forget that being there for everyone includes yourself. You know, it's not just about being there for your family and friends. You also have to be there for you, and that's something that I was not great at for a very long time, and you kind of forget that you're that you're the most important person in your story. So don't forget it, try to rest and relax. Enjoy the weekend, and, uh, yeah, enjoy the interview. That's all I got for you. Hello and welcome back to EPR. 

Today we're excited to have Doctor Sotiria Anagnostou with us. Dr. Anagnostou is a sustainability consultant, advisor and the executive director of Arizona Clean Tech. It's great to have you here. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. So you have a pretty big background on climate strategy, responsible AI, sustainable finance, those are all very fun buzzwords, but can you give us an overview of how you got to where you are and how those things connect? Yeah, I've been in this space for a decent amount of time and have seen it evolve over those years. So started understanding climate risk very much. And this was fairly early on and like, we had understood climate change, but how does it impact people and humans and, and society in general. So that was my focus area when I first got into the space or during my PhD and then stayed in the corporate sustainability space and some of those large Your ideas, don't get brought into that as much. We're busy trying to get our sustainability reports out, trying to do our greenhouse gas emissions reporting. So getting kind of the foundations of sustainability and ESG, where, where I started, which is a great place to start. And then over time it's evolved. So we have AI which can impact the ethics of some of our work, but also provides us some really unique tools. For, for tackling these challenges. 

So I've always been focused on how we're actually going to solve these challenges, what kinds of things we can build in across industries. So I like to live in those cross spaces where we're really trying to find the synergies. So that's how it's evolved into the work that I'm doing now, which is still strategizing corporate sustainability and, and climate work and climate risk. But then also, I think it's important we work with all of these new areas and some of these buzzy areas so that we can get the climate movement involved with a lot of different people. It's not going to be one group of people that solves these challenges. It's really getting everybody on board and finding the skills and the benefits of those things and then integrate. Being a climate or sustainability focus and lens towards those. So that's why I think focus around AI and technology is so important right now, because we can then focus on, on bringing those things together and bringing those people into it and keeping the conversation at the top of mind for a lot of this stuff. 

And so is that what you're doing as executive director for AZ Cleantech? Is that what you guys are focusing on, or is there something else you bring in from that business? Yeah. So A Cleantech is really a focus area for building the climate and clean tech community in Arizona. It's really a way to gather all of the people that are working on this space. There's some meetups for startups in general, and there's a lot of business related meetups, but nothing that really bridges that gap. Here for climate technology and then also the users of that technology. So we wanted to keep it focused around that, kind of see who was doing this type of work locally so that we could all help each other out. And then there's such a gap between the people that are developing these technologies, the startups, the entrepreneurs, the innovators, and then the large corporations that need those technologies to reduce their emissions or become more efficient. And I have more of that corporate. Background inside, but like working with those entrepreneurs. 

And so we can get everybody in the same room to bridge that gap a little bit more, which is becoming even more important as we see funding changes and, and we need to see corporations start funding these new technologies. So the more familiar they are with them and the people developing them, hopefully the more comfortable they'll be with direct investments in those spaces. Yeah, so when you say climate tech, what does that look like? What does that mean? Right now we're keeping it very open ended, really anything that helps us tackle any of these sustainability challenges. So I don't think we want it to be exclusionary at all. In Arizona, it tends to be focused around energy and a lot of our entrepreneurs are working in that space. So that's why we went with the clean tech name. And clean tech is hard to argue with, especially with anybody who might not believe in climate change or, or anything. So we try to keep the language that way, but it's pretty open ended. Definitely don't want to be exclusionary with anyone and really anybody who's thinking about or building technology that can help us tackle any of the impacts of climate change or effects of climate change. Yeah, so you're talking about like bringing people together and That space. What does that look like? Is that, hey, you're calling a business saying, hey, we can save you some money here. Here's an example of how, or is it a little more open-ended than that? Yeah, right now it's a little bit more open ended. So Ay Clean Tech is a nonprofit that we started about a year ago. And so there's a number of us that are on the board for that. A few entrepreneurs, one in climate, corporate climate like I am, and then other people who are great ecosystem builders and pretty much know everybody in Arizona, kind of that vibe. 

But what we did is we started hosting monthly meetups to Understand who was in the community and bring them all into the same room. And so that's where we started. That's what we've been doing for pretty much the past year. We're regularly getting 100 people involved and, and corporate sponsors and, and sponsors into those so that we can host a robust meetup. The other part we're really trying to do is focus on this funding gap. So I'll keep talking about that because it's quite significant. We have great entrepreneurs with great Ideas that can meet a lot of needs. But how do we fund this middle time when they're still building the product, it's not really developed enough to get the outcome that they need from it, especially when it comes to climate tech. They're not all software solutions. So we really need a longer term capital infusion into those. And so Ay Cleantech is trying to help bridge that gap even more so. So we're focused on bringing in Entrepreneurs, the people with the ideas that are starting this up, and then ultimately people who can help fund them and support them along that startup and entrepreneurial journey. So eventually we are, we're now talking to a few different organizations like The Walton program at Arizona State University that has a tremendous amount of capital to support these things, but we can help really bring that community together so that we're talking about like pipeline things or accelerators, incubators, the types of things that help these small companies. get off the ground and have the funding and financing that they need. 

So we're evolving into more specialist meetups and community building events where we can do that and really strategizing what we can bring in terms of what our entrepreneurs need here in Arizona to be successful and thrive. And do you see challenges with that? because I imagine that sounds really great, but there's got to be some, there's people worried about risk or funding, you know, it's got to be pretty hard to just go out and do that. Like, hey guys, what's up? How are you doing? You know, like, what do you have to do to kind of overcome those? Yeah, there's a tremendous amount of challenges. Soli tech is right now, folk, climate and clean tech is really focused in San Francisco and New York, which is great. They're great centers, but how do we get something outside of those areas to be kind of a sandbox we need it to be to try out some of these things? Arizona is a great middle ground. We're close to San Francisco, where we can get off, get on a flight and, and talk to people, but we also have a tremendous amount of land in a government, local, city. Government that is really open to business. We also have a lot of industries here that need these solutions, semiconductors, we've got semiconductor plants being developed constantly, and they have water, waste issues, emissions issues. So that's why we're trying, that's why we think Arizona is a great place to have this, but our, our investors here aren't familiar with the type of risk involved, so they see this as a tremendous risk. 

They hear the conversations around climate change and ESG and sustainability that go both ways. So they're not quite sure. How they're going to get their return on investment or the things that they're really concerned about. There are a lot of real estate investors here in Arizona. That's how a lot of people made their money. And, and so we're trying to bring in people from those communities like the Bay Area or New York, investors who are confident in their thesis around sustainability and, and climate. To meet our investors here and help them feel more comfortable with that risk appetite, understand the science, but also the business opportunity there. So a lot of it is an educational component of helping the funders understand how they can be a part of this here locally and then keeping our entrepreneurs here. Arizona State has an excellent. Sustainability program across multiple schools. So we are also trying to keep that talent here as opposed to those people graduating with their, you know, PhDs in carbon removal and then high tailing it to the Bay Area. How do we keep that that here? So that's the other part of mission from AZ Cleantech. 

Yeah, so is that kind of like, you know, just to put an example on it, is it like, you know, because what I think about with Arizona is big open spaces, sun. Solar, but what solar needs more than anything is real estate. So that's the big challenge. It's like, this is a great way to get energy, but you need a ton of space to do it. So is that the kind of thing where you're, you're kind of helping people? If that's what they want to do, you're saying, OK, this is where we have the space, this is who could use the space, let's talk. Is that kind of what you guys do? Yeah, we're definitely thinking along those lines. We'd also like to see, I mentioned a sandbox somewhere where people can come and build their pilot programs and have that community and network of other entrepreneurs to lean on, and then the capital people that need. access to watch these projects. So we're thinking carbon removal. We have great talent coming out of Arizona State for that and also the space that's required for that type of work. We have a couple of people working on some fusion technology, which you also need space and land. And then close access to someone who needs that type of power. So we're really trying to build something, a community like that where you can come and test drive things here, you can build your pilots and have the land to do that, but also the access to the corporations who might use your technology and you can get that in. Instantaneous feedback, invite people to the pilot so they can see it, feel it, touch it, think about it. 

So that's the ultimate goal would be to find the ability and financing to have really kind of this sandbox this playground where they can build these things and build a community around it as well. Very cool. Yeah, you must see some really awesome projects. Yes, we do see some awesome projects, and they're across the board. I mean, we have an entrepreneur who has a paint product that you can paint on rooftops or paint on cars or anything that helps reduce the heat that absorbs from the sun. So it'll keep a van that may not have, you know, air conditioning much cooler. And in a place like Arizona where we're consistently getting 120 days, it's Significant increase. And these types of technologies are available now, and it's just making sure people know about them so they can do it. So across the board, there's some really interesting technology coming out and making sure people understand that is really important to me, because I think it just lives in this private community of entrepreneurs and it's, everybody needs to know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, speaking of everybody needs to know. So funding is one thing. I have an idea and I need to test it, and I need to see what's out there. But our last guest, I'm hearing her say, every startup needs to do just customer discovery, customer discovery. So what are the challenges there? And is that something that AZ Cleantech is working with too with the entrepreneurs is, you know, you got to get people to, even if it works, people have to buy into it. 100%. And that's where I, some of my background comes in, because I've been, I've been at those large corporates. So that's my background is working for large corporates on their sustainability initiatives. 

So I understand, at least some on how those decisions are made in a corporate and what kind of things they're looking for, how they like to work with people. And a lot of entrepreneurs haven't. That's, they're the kind of people that don't want to work for a big corporation and be part of that, that hierarchy and that whole corporate feel. So they don't always know how bad. to communicate. And if you did grow up in the Bay Area around a lot of entrepreneurs, the way that they pitch to investors is very different than how the way that they need to pitch to the user of that technology. So that's a huge part of that as well, which I'm glad I was able to get close to this community and kind of keep that corporate lens. And that's how I see a lot of the buyers and users of the technology is the corporates. They're the ones with the money and the ones with a real ambition and are getting more of an ambition. And to utilize these solutions. Right. That makes sense. And then, what other challenges are there? So we've got funding, we need to get, you know, people to test drive these things, and then what else do they face? I think on top of it, it's there, you know, some other challenges, but one of them is community support as well. So they just can't sell their product to anybody and have it be OK. They, they're building these things in a community. 

Community members are involved in understanding. How corporations are polluting and what kind of technology is there. So, and getting support as well. So if the news or if your community is consistently against zoning for this type of work, or investing in this type of work or having it in their community, then that poses a real struggle as well. So not only is an entrepreneur trying to figure out how to communicate with an investor and a user of their technology, but also keeping that community relations and making sure people understand what they're doing and the benefit that it has. There's so, most of these solutions are not perfect. There's some kind of challenge associated with them, whether they have a waste product or utilize precious minerals or something like. But making sure people understand that that pro con type scenario, including the general public and community members in the community is where we live and work. Yeah, that's a great segue into our next point. You must be reading the questions here. Um, but like, you talk about that and like my thought, like my brain goes to responsible AI, right? That's another buzzword. AI has been a very fun fancy thing. And we're seeing AI be used a ton all over the place to mixed results, right? So it's either the greatest or worst thing that's ever happened, through somewhere in the middle, almost always, but what does, let's just start with, what does responsible AI look like cause there's a lot of ways to use AI and not all of them are great. So what does that look like for in the context of climate strategy? I think right now we are at the early stages of AI. I know there's a lot of people that have been working at that space, but really in the proliferation of building it into everything we're doing, we're at the very early stages there. 

So I think the recognition of the benefits and the challenges of different applications of AI is what ethical AI looks like right now. And so we don't have all the answers of all the externalities that might come from some of the ways that we're using AI. And so just having that thought process early and continually throughout the development and integration of AI is what I consider to be ethical AI right now. And I'm not fully an expert in that area. I'm sure there's people that focus solely on that, but I think the recognition that these kinds of things will have these negative outputs, but we also have these positive outcomes. And then from there, we can do kind of that cost benefit analysis on, do the pros. Outweigh the cons, and other ways to tackle the cons. Don't know if we talk about specific companies here, but there's a lot of conversation around Microsoft. So they're using some of their AI technology to help accelerate oil and gas extraction, but they also have a full playbook on how to use AI to reduce emissions, probably even from those types of operations as well. So I think understanding the scope of pros and benefits per application. of AI, and then we can go in and weigh, weigh those differences. Lots of talk around Microsoft not being, not should not be doing, you know, extract supporting the extraction of oil and gas. 

But right now we're still in an energy transition. So if we can do that better and with less environmental issues, then maybe that's where we need to focus on and maybe Microsoft is helping with that as we make this full transition to a lower carbon economy through energy alternatives. Yeah, and I mean, the big word there I think is efficiency, right? If you're telling a company, you can do the same thing, but you can be more efficient. Like what, every company is going to be like, yeah, no, none of them are gonna be like, oh no, I don't think so. I'd rather be less efficient, please, if that's OK with you. Exactly, especially and then if they're more efficient, there's usually a cost savings affiliated with that as well. So more efficiency means, yeah, there's some type of cost savings and then how do you, no one will argue with that. The company's going to save money, they're going to be more efficient. And then companies do innovate, even oil and gas. They're innovating. So if they can do what they've been doing and then spend all of their energy on research and development for new technology that I think is going to meet the needs of the future, then they'd like to do that too. 

I mean, you look at the books of oil and Gas, and they're heavily investing in carbon removal and some of these other technologies as well. They've all transitioned to say that they're energy companies, not oil and gas companies. So they're definitely focused on the future and know that oil and gas is not the only solution for the future. So they'll have to diversify. Yeah, which is, you know, the mark of good business is understanding where the market's going to go. So, I mean, so AI is going to become, you know, more and more involved in how we do things. Is that the biggest game changer? When we're talking about climate tech, is there something else on the horizon that you're seeing people are going to start using more of as well, or is it basically AI? AI, I think, will be tapped into all of those different areas, but I know the technology that I'm really interested in carbon removal, and that is a hotbed topic as well, and definitely gets a lot of flack from both sides, especially in corporate sustainability. You have the diehards who are like, we have to focus on reductions, and that is our You know, 99% of where we're going. But even during my PhD, I studied climate adaptation because we've been working on reducing emissions for 50 years, and we're not making the progress that we have to have to reduce our impacts from climate change to the extreme. And we're seeing that across the board now, increased climate challenges, climate change, that's causing serious impacts. 

So we have to consider adaptation, and I consider carbon removal to be an adaptation strategy. So we know we're emitting tons and tons of emissions, starting to pull back and reduce in some areas. And in general, I think there's a reduction. Progression, but there's just too much. So carbon removal, I'm really interested in. There's a ton of different ways to do that. AI will definitely help to make those things more efficient, to allow us to test things ahead of time to see how it's actually gonna work when you move from, you know, the lab to an actual facility or an actual application. And so I think the improvements in that area are important, and I'm really motivated and excited about that new technology because I think it's just absolutely essential. I just don't, don't see the market, the mechanisms in place for us to reduce emissions fast enough on the timeline we need it to be on. Yeah. Oh yeah, of course, and that makes a lot of sense, but how are we doing carbon removal now and how are we, like, is there a path to doing more of it in the future? Like, how does it even work? Yeah, so there's two ways to tackle this question, I think. So we have the technology, but then the market mechanisms that actually allow for us to have this happen. So the technology itself is fascinating, still in development across the board. You have direct air capture where there's, I don't know, I like to simplify it into like, you've got these big fans that pull carbon out of the air and capture it and find unique ways to either store it back down underground or, or utilize it. And then you have enhanced rock weathering. I'm not the scientist behind any of these technologies, but I can communicate it to the layman. So enhanced rock weathering, which you, you know, I think sometimes it's limestone that you dust over crops and things and it can collect carbon out of the air and then, um, washes into waterways and then settles on the bottom of those waterways, doesn't cause any, like any harm from my understanding, but can definitely help capture that carbon and hold it for the long term. 

So these things are being tested, being piloted, and sometimes being commercially operated and you have some big funders, just like Microsoft, big funder in carbon removal, and a lot of the big companies that really understand the benefits there. But then the market mechanisms, I think are where I'm really Interested in. So these things get funded right now by venture capital, private equity, those types of investors. We had a lot of money coming from the IRA, from the Department of Energy. I'm not quite sure how that's going to flush out over the next 4 years. But then you also have the purchase of carbon credits through the carbon markets that large corporations have been either buying into or evaluating how to build it into their strategy. And that's a big place that I'm interested in and how we develop that marketplace for carbon. That's great explanation, very well done. And so all this work, the startups, the projects, the carbon removal in itself, like, all these things are very exciting and I think they're, it's exciting work for young persons who are just graduating or even people who have been working some kind of job. I do as a career coach, get a lot of people who are switching into some sort of system. Sustainability or they kind of, they want to do clean energy and things like that, even if they don't really understand what it, what it means or what they're looking for. So what kind of advice or what would you tell someone who wants to get into clean tech or renewable energies or something like that as far as career searching goes?

That's a great question because there's, there's a lot of challenges. The people that have been working in climate and sustainability for a while have had to be a bit of a chameleon. We have to hustle to learn the full part of a business, if we're working in a corporate. It's definitely a hustle for those of us that have been working in that space. And so it's important for people that want to join that space to understand. Not that they have to work a million hours a week, but they do have to understand the industry and that there is a history in this industry as well, that, yes, it's new, but it's not, it's not totally brand new. So I think understanding some of that background is important. And then narrowing in on they're interested in and what their skill set is within that as well. I mean, interviewing for a corporate sustainability job is going to be wildly different than interviewing at a climate tech startup. Startups want to hear your origin story, why you're in this space, your passion and enthusiasm. Where if you're interviewing for a corporate sustainability role, they want to understand how you're thinking about their business when it comes to this. Your passion is only gonna go so far if you're in a corporation where only half the people believe in climate change. So that passion part, they already know you're passionate, that's why you're applying for that job. They want to know that you can work with those people in the business, regardless of their stance on, on any of this work and how you're going to communicate with them and show the business value.

 So I think understanding where your place is and then understanding how to market yourself within that place is really important. Yeah, I think that's a great, great, great response because like I said, when they come to me, they're often like, I want to work somewhere. OK, this is a big field you're talking about. And and like you said, that it's not even just the jobs are different, the environments where you work are different. You know, a startup might not care if you have any experience, but can you figure it out, right? But corporate isn't going to take that. No way. So, so that's, I think that was a really good explanation. And I love, and I won't be able to directly quote you because I don't have that skill. But what you said about, which if you've been listening, you know that by now. But, um, but what you said about working in a space. Only half the people actually believe in the climate change, that is such a real challenge. That could be a whole separate topic. Have you ever, I know that you're a career coach. Have you ever encountered anyone who wants to work in this space, but is still kind of unsure about climate? Because there's a huge business opportunity in this space too. And so I just wonder if you ever encounter that and how people might be thinking. About it. Well, do you mean that they, they aren't sure, they don't believe in climate change themselves? Maybe. But they understand that there's a business opportunity there because people are excited about it. I, that's probably a ridiculous, but no, it's not a ridiculous question. 

But no, I haven't actually. I think everyone, I have gotten people who are unsure that that's really their passion. I think this is where I want to go. You might want to get pretty sure about that before you go down this path. There's definitely tradeoffs too, I think. These companies, even these startups, don't have the same valuations as some other types of startups, software startups that might not be in climate. So I think there's a little bit of a misconception there that about the valuation of some of those startups. But, and maybe I was thinking along the lines of sometimes I host these meetups and there are people. Who work in climate tech, but really don't understand ESG and hate it, and they're completely against ESG. I'm like, that's like, you can't, those things do coincide in some gap areas. Yeah. No, I think the people that that come to me for career coaching, they, they haven't even got there yet, you know. Yeah. Which is fine. That's what's where you need to get help, right? Um, so kudos to them for doing that early because a lot of people wait a long time before they try to, you know, I've been searching for two years, like, oh, you should have started. That's my number one quote for career coaching, I should have started sooner. Goodness. Just like anything, you need a teammate and someone who can help you. So it sounds like you're taking that. Yeah, so, but how about you? How did you get the interest to go down this path? Like, I have a note here about a Puerto Rico story. Yeah, I've talked to a lot of startups, so I always get this like, what's your origin story for climate? I for a long time. So I'm like, I don't know, I better start like starting to present this a little bit more. But I do, I guess, have a great story for that. So I was always kind of an outdoor kid, like I grew up in Indiana, but when I was starting college, I really didn't know what I was gonna study. So I heard people taking like outward bound type courses for a semester. 

So I found myself in Puerto Rico and the Caribbean on a 3 month outward bound program and so it got college credit for it, but Outward Bound is a great organization to help you spend time outdoors understanding what kind of environmental issues there are, but also building your leadership and communication skills as well. You're working with a team of people who are also on these programs and tackling large challenges. Together. So part of that, we were kayaking the entire southern coast of Puerto Rico. So about 100 miles. It took us about 1010 days. And about day 3 or 4, and it's pretty secluded, most of it. We get to this large port, like just a huge port. We're in our tiny little kayaks and we have to follow all the rules to like navigate it because they have big barges and right on the edge of that we see this huge factory with just emissions spewing out, the water's dirtier than it was the other places. So, and I just from a distance in my kayaking like this is such a huge issue like. This is just one factory and there are hundreds of thousands, millions of factories across the world. I said this, I, I think this is going to be a much bigger problem of my lifetime, like the biggest problem of my lifetime. So continued on the program. Immediately came home, knew where I was trying to focus. Environmental studies was a good place to go, and I had a, I was always interested in political science. So transferred schools, started studying environmental policy and environmental studies, and then just continued from there. So at this intersection of the environment, corporations' impact on that environment, and then the economics and policy that enable that to happen, that challenge to happen, but also can enable some of the solutions there too. So. That was, I think there was a very specific point in time where I saw this intersection between corporates and the environment not working, and I knew I had to work in that space. Yeah. That's perfect. And it also exemplifies something that Nick and I have talked about before, is like, so many people are supposed to go find your passion, like you pick it off of a chart. That your example is how it happens. 

You're just minding your own business, you're having a good time, and then you're like, Whoa. A light bulb comes on, something touches your heart, and then I think your passion finds you. I don't think you will and find it. Yeah. You might have to coach it along a little bit, like if you start to see an interest. Like, I liked being outside and I liked sailing and kayaking. So I'm like, OK, let me try this thing. And then you go out of your comfort zone a little bit, and then, and then it all starts to make sense. Exactly. That's what the advice is. Follow your interests. A lot of times, I didn't like this for myself. One of my counselors at school, I asked, Should I take environmental science and policy or should I take biology? And they said, look at the coursework and see which one you like. I thought it was a cop out of an answer, but now that's what I tell people. You know, I, I give a little more detailed explanation about why, but, but that really makes sense. It's like, go where your interest is, and then your passion will come to you at that point. So that's a great story. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And do you feel like you've made that connection now? You're, you're on the path? I'm fully in that space. It has evolved over time. Like I, when I was in school, I really thought policy was the challenge here. And so I was fully focused on policy, but then I started learning more about corporations and the way that they work and what their objectives are. And then I said, OK, well, we got to match their objectives to get them on board. And so it's evolved over time, but always in the same like corporate policy, environmental space. And I, I don't think I'll ever work anywhere else. I got a little burnt out a year or two ago, but then took some time to focus on the communities that I'm building. So the Arizona Ay Cleantech, and then I host local meetups for Phoenix sustainability professionals as well. So more of those corporate sustainability folks and that has definitely helped reinvigorate me to tackle those other challenges in the climate work. 

So I'm fully in it. Yeah, that's great. And that's fun. And that also illustrates the importance of having a network. A lot of environmental people, because of, I don't know if it's the nature of science or whatever, but everybody thinks they're an introvert. And uh but shying away from building a community or network is, is really self-sabotaging, I think, because you might get to a point where you're like, you're not going to get. To the next step further if you don't have that support. Exactly. And that community can be for anything to finding a job or in your job or, or anything, but I had to move around a lot for my first couple of corporate jobs. There just weren't a lot available, and I wanted to keep progressing in my career. I was in school for a long time, so really needed to make some steps fast. So I, I traveled around a ton and really didn't have a community. So then I ended up back here in Arizona. I went to Arizona State for my PhD and then got back here, which is great. And there was no community here. They had stopped all the green drinks and things like that because of COVID. And so I met up with a girl for coffee and we were like, we should just put a meet up out there and see what happens. And we did. And now it's, that community has also grown into a couple 100 members. We get together on a quarterly basis, just very casual to talk about. Any challenge. And now those are my friends and my people I can lean on. And we invite students to come and hang out too and see who's going there. So that community is essential. 

And so even if you're moving around a bunch for work, I strongly encourage just throw a meet up on Luma or one of those meetup sites at a local bar or something or get together place and just see who shows up. And it's really easy to build community when you just put it out there. Yeah. Great advice. I love that. And uh before we move on to other fun things, let's just shout out that you do have your PhD. Congratulations. That's awesome. What made you want to go that far? Let's just say. Yeah, it was a lot, a few reasons. So I had a, I had a professor in undergrad that was like, you'd be a great teacher. And that's what I wanted to do. So I thought I would end up at a small liberal arts school teaching environmental issues. But by the time I graduated with my undergrad in 2008, straight into the recession, got a master's and kind of figured I would get that master's regardless. But then I, I have another like great story for that pathway. I was just reading an article, like a UNICEF article or something that was talking about the gender dimensions of climate change, and I had like never considered this in developing countries, there's typically a division of labor between men and women. And in some communities, women do household agriculture, collect fresh water, the types of things that are really being impacted by climate change and have been for 1020, 30 years. And like the climate change we've seen in the US, which has been, I think, fairly minimal for a while. 

But that, then I said, this is fascinating and I want to focus on this. So that's what I did. I found a PhD program that was open enough for me to study the gender dimensions of climate change. So, and the social dimensions, I guess. So how climate change impacts different groups of people and what makes those people resilient, adaptable. And have the resources to adapt because that's a huge part of it too. So now I help companies adapt and think about what makes them resilient and adaptable to climate change. So a little bit different focus, but the PhD was tough. It was really long, really hard, definitely different types of work than a master's and a, and a bachelor's. So it took me a long time to understand the purpose of a PhD and how to get through that process. So it's challenging. I Always like to give people, they need a community, you need a community if you're going to do that type of work too. But it can be really rewarding in a lot of ways. Well, that's awesome. I mean, you have it now, and that's awesome. So that's all that matters, right? And, um, yeah, so, Nick, let's move on to the funnier things, the fun things. All of this has been fun. I could talk to you about this for like 2 more hours, especially uh your PhD topic, but we'll have you back. But yeah, so. I don't know. I think you mentioned sailing and kayaking, and then you moved to the desert. So do you miss, I mean, that's literally the opposite of that. So do you miss sailing? 

Do you like, oh, we're taking a vacation, we're going to an ocean, like, do you miss it? I definitely miss being around water. I did grow up in the Midwest, so not ocean style, but grew up on lakes and sailing on lakes and close to Lake Michigan, things like that. When I first moved to Arizona for my graduate school, they have a small lake called Tempy Town Lake, and they have a sailing club. And so I did join that. But like the 3 times I went out there, there, we just like literally sat right next to the dock in a boat and I was like, OK, like I gotta find some other hobbies. So I found some local hobbies. I really love to hike out here. It's just gorgeous. But no streams, not like the Midwest when you're hiking and all of a sudden you come across a little stream. But Finding hobbies to do in the desert has been good, but yes, every chance I get, or especially conferences or any way I can get to the ocean. I love going to the Bay Area because I do like that energy around climate and then clean tech. But then, you know, 20 minutes out of the city, you can go surf, you can rent a surfboard and go. So I've really enjoyed getting out of here when I can and getting back on the water. I was a sailing instructor for a long time when I was in school, both my undergrad and master's and PhD. And it was great working. With students in that capacity, getting them outside and, and sailing is is a great sport as well. So yeah, whenever I can get out of the desert, I do. But there's some great hobbies here too. So I try to. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because I remember like the first time I, I went hiking in Arizona, I'm an East Coast kid, right? So I, I just expect humidity to tell me how tired I am, how dehydrated I am. Then you go to like Phoenix, for example, and you're having a glass of water and you realize that you've had ice in it the whole time. The ice is melted and there's no condensation. 

I remember like genuinely like, oh, I just gave myself heat stroke because I didn't even realize I was dehydrated, so like. That's a very different experience than hiking almost anywhere else. So like, was that an adjustment for you? Is that something that you like, you're like, Well, we're gonna go hiking in the desert. I've got 8 gallons of water. I'm good. That's an interesting story about the condensation. I don't even think I ever realized that, but it is so dry that it just sucks it right out of you. I'm a very cautious, outdoorsy type person, so I think I definitely was cautious even my first couple of hikes would Always go with other people that were local. And then my local trail is now part of, is part of the city of Scottsdale where I live. And so there are trail guides and trail people that hike that every couple of hours. So I'm, I'm big on the safety part of it as well. But yeah, definitely like would keep my water the first couple of times, how much water I would drink like 20 minutes in. And then if I was halfway through, then it's like, oh, turn around, like you're getting right back out of here. Um, so yeah, it It's, and then you look online, how much water you need for this hike. Luckily, there's like websites like all trails now, so they kind of tell you, you get lots of insight, which then turned my favorite trail into like the Bachelorette Central. 

So that's kind of a bummer. But, but other than that, yeah, I'm a cautious outdoorsman, so I like to be well prepared and definitely think through a lot of that stuff. But yeah, it is dry out here. Even now, I can tell my mouth's getting dry and I've been sipping on warm water, so it's dry and it sneaks up on you. It's, it's a dangerous place to live and people don't get that. And if you come out here in the summer and it's 110 and try to go hiking, I don't even hike in the summer. It's just yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's wild. I don't know, I think one of the, the beauties of this country is how different it is, like, you know, like landscape wise, and I remember being in Denver and I'm in the, I go to my hotel room and there's a gigantic bottle of lotion in my room. I'm like, what on earth is this for? And then my nose starts, you know, bleeding and I haven't done anything, right? I'm just like, oh right, yeah, sorry, dry again. I'm in a dry climate. I gotta. And so Arizona is very much like that. It's just kind of a very unique space. And so, yeah, I mean, we, it's so funny, like we, we have a thing we love to talk about field stories, right? We call it hashtag field notes and we kind of ask our memorable moments in their career, but for you, I would love to hear about your dog, Rocky. That's what I want to know. You gotta have a good story about your pup. So, can you give us one for the Field Notes segment? I have a decent recent story. So Rocky is a little poodle Bonan mix. He's pretty active, but he's definitely getting older, so he would like to go on. Little, I'm not the one to like take him on long hikes cause I've seen too many dogs get dehydrated on those hikes. 

So I usually take him to the hiking trail parking lot and pretend that we're going hiking and tell him that we are, cause he's like a 25 pound little guy. Yeah. But now that he's getting older, the last time I already took him 2 times ago and I let him jump out of the car and immediately he started limping a little bit. I'm like, Oh, you hit a rock. Like, OK, we'll, we'll get out of here. And then the last time I took him, I like gingerly got him out of the car, sat him down, and immediately started limping again. So apparently he's not my parking lot hiking friend anymore. He had had enough. He's, I'm, I'm a it's a Scottsdale can be a little resort town and a little bit snotty too. So now I say he's a real Scottsdale boy, sidewalks only. He's uh. So that's my latest. He's like, I see that from my balcony window. Like, I don't, I don't engage with the outside anymore. So that's my story. But aging pups is a change of pace too, so I'm getting comfortable with that, but he's a good boy. No, I don't doubt it for a second. It's just they're so wonderful are wonderful. Parts of the family, so you've got to love that. So this is a bummer because we're almost out of time, and this has been a really fun conversation. But before we let you go, is there anything else you'd like to say? Maybe I'll address just a little bit on the state of the world right now. So we have a lot of challenges going on, just bombarded with news and a Announcements, especially when it comes to sustainability and climate and ESG, which I kind of lumped together into, I don't know, the environmental movement or, or something, however we want to phrase it. 

But I think what I'd like to tell probably this audience is, I don't know that this changes our strategy all that much. We might see some changes in language and, and how we communicate this work, but I just got back from a 3-day conference with ESG and sustainability people all focused on real estate, and not one person. Said that their company strategy has really changed, and they're all still gearing up, still hiring for this space. So if anything, it creates even more challenges with now state and local policies that we're gonna see as opposed to just one unified national policy. 

So, I think just staying encouraged, going past the noise and realizing that we're still on a pathway here. Because it's business relevant, it's financially relevant. We still see climate change. It's not happening just because people don't believe it or we're not focused on it. So, um, so I think there's just a tremendous amount of opportunity in this space and, and don't see really any pullback from a lot of places. Even the people that might be pulling back on their goals. That's just the external facing of the goal. It doesn't mean that they've changed anything internally about how they're addressing that. So, so that would be my last. They're going to. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. No, that's perfectly said and a great way to end the show. But last but not least, where can people get in touch with you? I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so I think that's the best bet. I respond to messages, I post a decent amount of things I'm seeing, so follow me on LinkedIn, Soteria anecdotes to, you'll find me. That's a not very common name, so you'll see on there. That's perfect. 

Thank you so much, Sotiria. It's been great having you. Great, thank you, Nick. And that's our show. Thank you, Sotiria, for joining us today. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. See you, everybody.